1967 dart

ok got the carb sitting solid today in the spare time.

Flipped the engine on and got her idling around 1000 rpm pulling approx 5 inches of vacuum as i was tinkering with the distributor.

From what i see 5 inches is about normal for the 484 cam? It was the best i could get out of it. Ran out of time and had to shut her down and get back to milking cows so will see if she will fire right up tomorrow and i should know if its in the ball park?

didnt look at what the timing was set at but it was around 20 initial if i remember correctly

Mainly trying to get her to idle tonight and mixture screws were turned out about 1 turn
I did run the throttle up and she seemed to like to rev like a mofo.... so i was a bit excited as my daughter was trying to show me a tree frog that she had caught so i had to quit my loud noises :-D
 
I would hope to see a little more vacuum out of that camshaft, actually. I would think around 8-10" would be about right but that's just an educated guess. Your idle mixture screws will tell the tale once you get it to actually idle on that circuit.

20° initial timing seems pretty high, but I ran as high as 26° with a longer-duration, shorter-lift cam in a Pontiac 400 without a hint of trouble other than the fact that the car absolutely would not start after a 20-minute heat soak. :doh: 24° made it only slightly more livable... I only needed jumpstarts on days over 75°F. :D I would suggest just setting your total at 33° by about 2,800RPM and letting the initial fall where it may. You might have to tinker around with the vacuum canister a little bit to avoid detonation under part-throttle load, though... and if you don't have a vacuum advance, driving the car is gonna suck regardless except in full-throttle acceleration. Adjust your final idle speed from there; you should be around 800RPM in neutral with a stick or a touch lower in drive with an awfulmatic.
 
Getting the total advance set at around 33 deg. (depending on distributor curve) is right around 12 deg. initial. Getting the timing correct will allow you to get the idle screw backed off enough to get the carb running on the idle circuit. Getting it to idle on the idle circuit will get the vacuum up into the 8 to 10 inch area Jass mentioned.
 
The total timing v. the base timing is dependent only on the slots in the flyweights on the distributor, actually. The curve of the distributor has nothing to do with either, it's simply the map of where the spark falls on its way from one end of those slots to the other. Modifying the curve requires changing the springs and flyweights; in the case of the flyweights the change is often done by lightening them (which actually makes the curve less aggressive). On the Mopar distributors, you can change total timing in relation to base by lengthening the slots on the flyweights, but it's not necessary in most cases. Most guys just tinker with the springs and let 'er rip where it runs best. Trying to curve a distributor without a machine is a very trying process.
 
Well yes. Kinda. If you have a timing advance light you would set the light to 33deg and bring the balancer to zero.
 
no i dont have an advanced timing light. I marked the balancer to the best of my ability (with steel rule) and marked up to 60 degrees. I do remember seeing the timing at 60 degrees at one point but dont recall what rpm it was at or when.

I think i will have to see what springs are in the msd distributor.
http://www.msdignition.com/WorkArea/DownloadAsset.aspx?id=15032386346

if i read this correctly i would want 1 silver (light) and 1 blue (light)? or table E?

i do not have any other parts for this distributor so i would have to order them in ... to tinker with the timing more.
 
dodgedifferent2 said:
if i read this correctly i would want 1 silver (light) and 1 blue (light)? or table E?
Click to expand...

The combination you need depends on a lot of the rest of your engine. I don't know how comparable your MSD is to a stock electronic, but with both of my 440's I installed the lightest spring on both sides so I'm getting full advance just over 2K. It works beautiful in my waGOON running the stock converter. If I nail it in drive it leaves somewhat soft, but a few feet later.....booom. But I'm also running stock cam, so my power & torque come in at a much lower RPM.

You may need to swap some different combos to find what works best for you. :huh:
 
I was reading and confusing myself with timing which is why i ask. I understood that with 20 initial and 33 advance ... when added together would make 53 degrees total advance. My father could not remember that far back to what he was doing with his 340 so we both looked at the timing light a bit dumbfounded.

But he did make a smart remark that if i wanted to advance the timing just take an inch out of the coil to distributor wire :hmmm:
 
Forget initial. Don't worry about it. Looking at your distributor instruction sheet, there's all sorts of things you can do to change total advance off base, but it's not really necessary unless you have a preignition condition. Get a couple of light springs that will get your total where you need it to be RPM wise. Set your total and let the chips fall where they may in regards to initial timing. If you find that it's excessive and you're getting detonation in part-throttle driving, then worry about using smaller advance stop bushings to dial in less initial (which of course means you'll have to re-set your total with the new bushings).

You really need a dial-back light for this. It makes it so much easier to just read off the huge "zero" mark on the balancer, assuming you've verified that it's accurate. I'm rather surprised you took the time to hand-mark yours when a Mopar Performance timing tape is what, $8?
 
I have lots of free time watching a cnc machine work.

I have read on numerous forums that the dial back lights do not work with msd ignition boxes

as for mopar performance around here to get something ... the last time i tried to get something from the local dealer he told me that he cant pull stock from U.S stores anymore

So stuck him and i no longer visit that dealer and they were the dealer that told me there were no 4 door dakota built with manual transmissions *bangs head on table*

The next local dealer i never make it into that city during weekdays so they are hard to obtain parts since they are all closed weekends
 
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dodgedifferent2 said:
I have read on numerous forums that the dial back lights do not work with msd ignition boxes
Click to expand...
"I read it on the internet. It must be true... they can't put anything on the internet that isn't true." :doh:

I don't see how it couldn't work. It has nothing to do with the ignition box whatsoever. It triggers off the spark-plug wire. Advance is advance, and it's going to trigger the light at the onset of spark, multiple fire or not. The only time they won't work is in a waste-fire scenario, where an ordinary timing light won't work either since it's firing twice as often. There's nothing special about an MSD box; even stock vehicles have used multispark systems since back in the distributor era. It's not mystical or magical. Most current factory ignitions blow it away in spark output (part of the reason I decided on Ford EDIS for my EFI project). The only thing special about MSD is their habit of going bankrupt and being scooped up by a different holding company every few years.

As far as the timing tape, if you're going to make excuses that's great but there are several Canadian sources for MP other than the local dealer. Order one. Or get one from one of the other companies make timing tapes. They're based on dampener diameter, not make, so they're nothing special either. Seek and ye shall find.
 
Dr.Jass said:
As far as the timing tape, if you're going to make excuses that's great but there are several Canadian sources for MP other than the local dealer. Order one. Or get one from one of the other companies make timing tapes.
Click to expand...

Um - nope. Mp is a fiat-chrysler dealer only thing up here. Started during the daimler era I beleive.

But yeah - I gots my timing tape at the local speed shop - Mr. Gasket product if I recall correctly.
 
The dual-pickup distributor was used on all Mopar V8 engines of that era with and without vacuum advance, but it was not for multiple sparks. One pickup is retarded 3-4° from the other and is activated by a fender-mounted relay with the starter switch to ease starting. I have an NOS 360 distributor in my basement that is dual pickup with vacuum advance. It's a simple way to build a kickass ignition system for performance, as a relay can kick in the retarded pickup at high RPM simply by being activated by an RPM switch. Pulling timing out above about 4,500RPM is a good thing.

GM's LT engines of the early/mid-'90s used a Delphi multiple-spark technology, as have all the coil-on/coil-near-plug systems used on the LSx engines. Ford's had multiple discharge since at least the advent of EDIS, which puts out MSD8 type energy despite being wasted spark and having insanely-low coil saturation times. I was told many years ago that Chrysler had it with the advent of the SMEC on turbocharged applications but finding information on factory multiple-spark ignition is a lot like trying to find a brown van with a Challenger seat in it. :D
 
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