Gun control

Dr.Jass

Pastor of Muppets
In light of yesterday's tragedy in CT, and new screams about gun control, I thought this should be a topic of discussion. I will state my opinion and will not flame or ridicule those of different viewponts. In fact, I welcome them. It's an interesting conversation if it doesn't become a pissing contest.

I have been affected by gun crimes both directly and indirectly. When I was 19, I was held up at gunpoint by two men. One had a .357 revolver, the other had a sawed-off 12-gauge shotgun. I was at college at the time; they got away with all of $16.12. One was a good kid running with a bad crowd, the other one was a dirtbag. They were caught and both did at least 7 years; I believe the dirtbag did 10. A couple of years later, one of my best friends from childhood and high-school was murdered locally at point-blank range by a 12-gauge to the face while he was passed out from drinking. He had been drinking with the "friend" that shot him. The "friend" just wanted to know what it was like to kill someone. One of my older brother's friends was shot in the stomach outside a bar shortly after graduation and died of his wounds, and a friend my sisters was shot and killed trying to stop a crime while he was at college. I knew both of my siblings' friends pretty well.

At no point have I changed my stance on gun control. I have remained pro gun, pro CCW, and pro open carry. Why, with all this gun violence around me?

First and foremost, not one of these instances involved a legally-obtained weapon. In the first two cases, they were stolen and in the second two cases they were .22 caliber rimfire Saturday Night Specials that had never even had serial numbers in the first place. Call a .22 a pea-shooter, but they take more lives yearly, both human and animal, than all other calibers combined.

Secondly, there are mitigating circumstances in each case that would have changed the situation dramatically. In my personal instance, had I owned my Colt M1911A at the time, all three guys in the car likely would've taken a bullet. They were drunk and I knew it; it made my fear that much worse but had I been armed that would've worked to my advantage. I could've plugged each one of them (even though the guy in the back seat wanted no part in any of it, I would've taken a shot at him). In the case of my dear friend, I have always said that if Mike had been awake, the two guys involved in his murder would've been the ones in the box. Let's just say you had to know Mike. I have never seen anyone so fearless in my life. In the other two cases, well, I don't think Donny ever thought he'd get shot trying to sell an ounce of weed, and in Scott's case, having a pistol in his hand while getting the guy's attention probably would've saved his life. He was holding a folding knife which isn't so good when you're 15 feet away and don't know the guy's packing.

Last, gun control just plain doesn't work. Look at what happened with drugs. At one point, cocaine, heroin, and morphine were all used for medicinal purposes and were freely available at the local druggist. Now the former two are outright illegal, and the latter is highly controlled. Marijuana is Schedule 1, but it's less harmful than a Red Bull (and it might've saved Hostess were it 100% legal :D ). I can make one or two phone calls in a small town and get any one of them within an hour or two, despite the best efforts of local and federal agencies that spend billions of dollars to stop that kind of nonsense (I don't do any of them, it just seems like I do). Liquor was readily available and led to the rise of La Cosa Nostra to huge power during Prohibition. In other words, the outlaws still got, and still can get, their fix. Why should we expect any different results with banning guns? Addicts still get their drugs, and criminals will still get their guns. At one point, I owned three unregistered guns, including the aforemention Colt and two 12-gauges.

Simply put, killers will find a way to kill. Knife, baseball bat, fists, garrote... they're going to do it if they've set their mind to it.

I don't believe we need to take away the guns of responsible citizens. However, I do think we need better government communication and communication between the government and healthcare. My idea for "gun control" is this: I believe in background checks, and I think those would be more effective if medical personnel were able to "flag" certain people and prescriptions were state or federally registered. I don't think a psychiatrist should be violating doctor/patient privelege if they simply call the authorities, give a name and pertinent information, and say nothing more than "red flag" because this person has expressed thoughts of violence or ill will towards society. I don't see a reason why anyone taking federally-approved mind-altering drugs like Prozac, Xanax, Ritalin, etc. shouldn't be tagged and denied gun ownership. Known side effects should flag someone, period. I have personal experience with the side effects of Prozac in particular; it made one of my ex-girlfriends a complete psycho when she took it to battle what was essentially drama-queen depression (she was a teenager). I'm glad she wasn't armed in a few cases.

I no longer own a gun. I do not want to own a gun, but I feel that if I so chose, I should be able to do so to protect myself and my home.

You may sound off; all opinions are welcome.
 
honeslty ..i think guns should be more freely atainable...but if at ANY point your cught doing something stupid..be is shooting in a place not allowed or doing something you shouldnt with it..boom..your gun privilages are revoked FOR LIFE....

your right is someone wants to kill they will and theres not any way to stop em..you can slow em down but they WILL FIND A WAY!!!!!.....hrll pl snap and do crazy shit...qand us crazys are the ones youd have to watch out for cause we can go 2 ways..go ing hot blastin or calm controled and simplisticly under the radar get in do what we want and get out and likely never be caught....

point is..everyone should be allowed to own a gun they are capable of.....and it should be something akin to a DMV drivers test along with a background check
 
" I don't see a reason why anyone taking federally-approved mind-altering drugs like Prozac, Xanax, Ritalin, etc. shouldn't be tagged and denied gun ownership."

I've been taking some ssri antidepressant or another for 17 years or so. You think I shouldn't be allowed to own a gun because of that?
 
Guns are a small part of the whole equation, the true source of the increasing violence is that there are a lot more people without morals. It's only the opinion of an olde phart, but I think the major cause is because of the continued breakdown of the traditional family. What percentage of the recent shooters came from a 2 parent family? If there were 2 parents were they both working all day? What's the kids doing while no one watches them? Shoot'em up video games?

What are todays kids learning during their most impressionable age? 40-50 years ago kids actually played, physically, football, baseball, basketball, we even made up games. And we played with our toy cars, and couldn't wait to drive one. If you grow shooting hundreds or thousands of imaginary people you probably can't wait to do it for real.

There are many factors that contributed to the breakdown of the nuclear family. One main factor that most people don't realize was when the banking business started getting greedy and made credit cards available to everyone. Now they could get anything they wanted, without saving up for it. Now we could all try to keep up with the Joneses. This lead to the need for a dual income family. The next step was that wives noticed that by earning a wage, they didn't need a husband. And this is all happening at the same time that birth control pills hit the market. The 60's, free love, women's lib, hippies. It was a great time, I lived it. But look were it got us. :(
 
" I don't see a reason why anyone taking federally-approved mind-altering drugs like Prozac, Xanax, Ritalin, etc. shouldn't be tagged and denied gun ownership."

I've been taking some ssri antidepressant or another for 17 years or so. You think I shouldn't be allowed to own a gun because of that?
Well, I don't know... I never came home drunk at 1 in the morning and took a shot in the direction of the neighbor's dog with a .454 Casull simply because I was annoyed by the dog barking, but I wouldn't call that being a responsible gun owner. I'll be honest, though... I'm not on any medication, but get me good and drunk and had I owned a gun I damned-well may have done the same with the neighbor's dog. That's part of why I don't own one.

R/T, between Dr. Spock convincing people it wasn't OK to spank their kids and Clinton opening up the banks like a Goodwill store, personal responsibility and accountability has apparently vanished. With both of us being divorced, I watched the difference in my own daughter and my niece and nephew when they visited their Dads. "Oh, that's right... here I don't get a 'time out' in my room with a TV, game console, and phone. I get spanked." In my life, "Just wait until your father gets home" meant I was looking at a second ass-kicking, always well-deserved. Of course, if I screwed up at school it meant that would be the third torture of the day. I learned a hell of a lot more, far more quicky, getting smashed across the knuckles with a traingular yardstick, kneeling on a broomstick, or a sharp crack on the ass with the weapon of your choosing than any kid will ever learn from being put in a "time out". When my sister sends her boys to their room, they can fire up the Xbox and play Call of Duty. Great... teach them that violence is soothing. Her kids, so not my domain, and they really are well-behaved kids, but I'm not sure I can find any value in that form of "punishment".
 
Pierre, great answer. The only problem is, you didn't answer the question I asked. Reread it and try again.
 
No offense intended to you at all v8440.

There is a stigma among pills like that.

Why is he/she on them? They must be mentally unstable so that's why they have to take drugs to stay "normal".

What happens when they go off them? Oh they go all fucked up and don't care about themselves or anyone one else and decide today is a good day to "fuck the world".


It it totally dependent on WHAT the drugs are being taken for, not just the drugs themselves.


I agree with 69.5 but only partially since there are no conditions defined and his regulation is too vague to be realistic.
 
When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns... I read this years ago and it stuck with me. True words.

68 is thinking the same way I am. The problem isn't guns, it's the lack of responsibility from the no-minds using them.
I'm Canadian. Guns typically aren't an issue here, and I really have no idea how hard it is or isn't to get a gun. I do know our beautiful federal goverment has spent millions trying to register long guns, for whatever stupid reason, and finally bailed on the project when they realized it wan't going to do anyone any good.

There is no easy answer whenever something like this happens, but you can be sure society and it's many modern-day faults is the problem, not guns.

My two cents worth...
 
Not really. You tangentially answered it. What I'm looking for specifically, is for you to elaborate on why you think the fact I take an antidepressant means I shouldn't own a gun. This is the part of your post I'm referring to: "I don't see a reason why anyone taking federally-approved mind-altering drugs like Prozac, Xanax, Ritalin, etc. shouldn't be tagged and denied gun ownership."
 
v8440, I tagged you on this when you posted about the event that brought the cops to your house. That being said don't think I'm piling on here. I'm not "kicking" you on this ok.

I'm against gun control for lots of reasons, most of them have been touched on already. I have to say the first thing that came to mind when you originaly responded to Jass's post is exactly the same as his responce to yours.

The anti depresents may or may not have anything to do with your actions with your .454 that night but the FACT is you were extremly irresponsible that night and in my opinion, bassed soley on your actions that night, you shouldn't have hand guns. PERIOD! That being said, we are all human and we all make mistakes but decisions like that are the decisions that get innocent people killed and otherwise good people sent to prison where they have years to ponder the decision made in anger. (Not a good situation for any side of the event)

I blasted you in your thread about that and I still think you should count your blessings every day on that one. No one got hurt, or worse, and no one went to jail.

Once again, I'm not piling on you in any way.
 
My answer was "I don't know".

In response to this last query, perhaps it's because I've seen the side effects of some of these drugs first-hand. Drugs affect different people in various ways; I didn't like what anti-depressants (and anti-anxiety meds) did to me so I stopped both of them, even though I have been diagnosed as manic-depressive. I didn't drink at the time, either. Prozac Girl wasn't the only woman I've dated that I'm glad wasn't armed. Rachel attacked me in a parking lot and tore off my shirt one night. It was about 18° and snowing to beat all, but I had to walk the two miles home like that. When I finally got here, she was waiting for me, had another episode in which she attempted to destroy my computer and me both by throwing my dual 17" CRT monitors at me. I forced her out of the house and locked the door. She pounded on it screaming for probably half an hour, and for an hour after that she lay out there on the porch crying. I eventually let her back in the house because she didn't have her car keys; I even let her sleep in my bed while I took the La-Z-Boy. The next day, I was the bad guy. She called everyone: parents, brother, ex-husband, babysitters, friends--you name it ranting from a payphone in the nearby pub since she'd also lost her phone. This, of course, after she'd gotten out of bed, made coffee to wash down her meds, and then walked directly to the bar to get away from "abusive" me. The only thing she drank at the bar that morning was straight Coca-Cola. This was not our only run-in, but once again I was glad she didn't have a gun that night. What triggered all this? She and my friend Mary were being verbally abusive to a woman I know who happened to be our waitress that night. Both Randy and I were telling them, "Will you two stop acting like bitches?" Mary calmed down, Rachel flipped her wig. They were both drunk, but Mary wasn't on meds with known side effects of increased depression and psychosis. There's little doubt in my mind that had she had a gun that night, I would've been shot before I got to my porch. To this day, Mary wonders what the hell was going through Rachel's mind that night and blames it on the meds. Why? Because Mary's an RN.
 
Restoman, I have an FAC and could go to Home Hardware tomorrow after work and buy a shotgun with no waiting period. Cash and carry with no registration.

I own firearms myself and would be livid if they were taken away from me on the basis that someone else couldn't use theirs with responsibility.

It reminds me of Bill's post on facebook. If drunk drivers kill people with their cars why should I have mine taken away if they are irresponsible?
 
Stretch, I didn't take offense to what you said in the original thread. However, let's not get it twisted and blow it out of proportion. I fired a gun directly into the ground. It's not a case of a stray bullet happening to not hit someone-the bullet was not a stray. Other than hearing damage, nobody was in any actual danger. Even a .454 casull round is no match for Earth.
 
You fired your gun (a big one I might ad) in a residential area in anger! That speeks volumes in its self. As for the .454 casull, it is a pistol I'm very familiar with. I have fired my father-in-laws several times. Firing it (or any gun) into the ground means little. It was fired in anger! You can sugar coat that all you want but an irresponsible action it will always be.

I think the gun control agrument can be boiled down to who is resposible enough to own one. I still don't suport gun control and never will. But if it comes down to it I feel it needs to be based on ones actions with any kind of wepon.
 
I grew up in a hunting family. My dad became a gunsmith in his later years. Gun control is not going to solve anything.

what bothers me is the intense media coverage of every incident like this. Notriety is a common goal of all these freaks. Their names should never be spoken or written, their pictures should never be published. They should be referred only as the shooter, or more preferable some derogatory term reserved just for these special kinds of scum.

Somewhere there is another sicko watching all this publicity and thinking he can do even more. It's like trying to get high score on a video game.
 
You fired your gun (a big one I might ad) in a residential area in anger! That speeks volumes in its self. As for the .454 casull, it is a pistol I'm very familiar with. I have fired my father-in-laws several times. Firing it (or any gun) into the ground means little. It was fired in anger! You can sugar coat that all you want but an irresponsible action it will always be.

I'm sorry, but there is a distinction between firing a gun into the ground to shut a dog up and firing a shot that goes who-knows-where. You know that perfectly well-anyone with a functioning brain does. If you doubt this, pretend for a minute that I had fired a shot horizontally that just happened to not kill anyone. What would your reaction be? Would it be a bit stronger? I submit that it would. Was it irresponsible? Yes. I haven't denied that-in fact, I agreed with you when you first posted something to that effect in the original thread. But, I won't pretend that it's anything like firing a random shot that could have hit something or somebody. It has a nice ring to it, but factually it's just not remotely the same level of danger. In fact, barring a gun malfunction that could happen at a gun range, there's practically no danger.
 
I grew up in a hunting family. My dad became a gunsmith in his later years. Gun control is not going to solve anything.

what bothers me is the intense media coverage of every incident like this. Notriety is a common goal of all these freaks. Their names should never be spoken or written, their pictures should never be published. They should be referred only as the shooter, or more preferable some derogatory term reserved just for these special kinds of scum.

Somewhere there is another sicko watching all this publicity and thinking he can do even more. It's like trying to get high score on a video game.
Very well said. :clap: That's pretty-much how it goes. There was a guy around here that made custom handguns for many years, and each one of them was registered, including descriptions of lands and grooves, rate of twist, the whole nine. These were one-off guns; were one to be stolen and used in a crime he wanted to know its source could be found for investigative purposes. He's now deceased, but he built some gorgeous guns. He could've cranked out Saturday Night Specials all day long had he wanted; he never made a one.

v8440, yours was an irresponsible use of a firearm. Sugar-coat it however you want, but you're already known in the neighborhood as "that crazy guy that took a shot at the neighbor's dog" even though you intended to miss.
 
I think you guys are working extremely hard to miss the point I made. I would provide an analogy to illustrate it, but at this point I think that if Jesus himself came down from the sky (scaring the hell out of Valentine in the process) into your living room and directly told you the same thing I'm saying, you would manage to avoid understanding. It's ok, we can agree to disagree on this one.
 

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