Project Fur-Kota!
- Thread starter 340EH
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340EH
Well-known member
More work in the trunk this time passenger extension.
This is my first time welding exterior sheetmetal. I made it out of the back of the Dakota cab, formed using the vice "brake" and an old piece of 2 inch tube. I'm pretty happy with my results. :dance:
Next up cleaning trunk and sealing all my Holy welds.
This is my first time welding exterior sheetmetal. I made it out of the back of the Dakota cab, formed using the vice "brake" and an old piece of 2 inch tube. I'm pretty happy with my results. :dance:
Next up cleaning trunk and sealing all my Holy welds.
340EH
Well-known member
When I pulled the rear end to get at the floor the DS rear spring eye was broken in half. and it looked like two of the seven leaves in the pack were hacked out of some much larger springs and it'd be a good idea to just look at new ones, and they didn't seem that expensive. But I do want to bring the back end down a bit from the as delivered height (see complete car on first page for fully dressed height).
so Jass was saying if you get springs de-arched they should replace the longest (I'd call it the "Base" leaf) leaf anyhow. so now I'm wondering if I should take them in to Harry's here in london about getting the old ones to work right the first time.
pics,
so Jass was saying if you get springs de-arched they should replace the longest (I'd call it the "Base" leaf) leaf anyhow. so now I'm wondering if I should take them in to Harry's here in london about getting the old ones to work right the first time.
pics,
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Dr.Jass
Pastor of Muppets
I don't know that they were hack-jobs, but I'd definitely replace them. I don't know what to tell you as far as what spec to use if you're using a Dakota front and a C-body rear, though. I thought this thing was getting set on a Dakota frame entirely. Mismatched springs front-to-rear can cause all kinds of handling issues, from plowing like a Conestoga wagon to frightening oversteer. Your best bet is to get it sitting on all fours, scale both ends of the car, and determine your front spring rate. Consult a book about handling or road racing, and go from there. The last thing you want to do is center-punch a tree with either the grille or the decklid. Hell, putting too big a swaybar on the rear will have you looking at where you just were in a big hurry, and from experience it's not easy to handle a car going backwards at 80MPH.
340EH
Well-known member
I have been away from the Furkota for a while, got back into the garage today. I was looking at the tank and I noticed the hole for the fuel pump has eight threaded holes to mount the pump, it is supposed to be for an aeromotive stealth in tank. The thing is I have never seen one with an eight bolt flange most of the pics/videos show a ten bolt flange surface for mounting to the tank. anybody know if there is an eight bolt pump or am I going to have to improvise?
http://aeromotiveinc.com/wp-content/uploads/wpsc/product_images/18668_18669.jpg
http://aeromotiveinc.com/wp-content/uploads/wpsc/product_images/18668_18669.jpg
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Dr.Jass
Pastor of Muppets
Have you tried calling Aeromotive? Is this perhaps the reason the original owner of that tank didn't use it?
The mounting plate looks like it's pretty easy to change. Perhaps you could have one made locally. Dodgedifferent2 seems to do some good fab work; maybe he could help you with this if you have no luck otherwise.
The mounting plate looks like it's pretty easy to change. Perhaps you could have one made locally. Dodgedifferent2 seems to do some good fab work; maybe he could help you with this if you have no luck otherwise.
340EH
Well-known member
That's what I was thinking too Doc. I was going to call them today then I got it in my head that everything would be closed for US Thanksgiving. I had thought of making a disk to fit the 8 bolt opening and using the regulator and pump from the Stock unit and mounting them to it. My stock 5.2 really doesn't need a fancy expensive pump. I'll have to contact DD2.
Dr.Jass
Pastor of Muppets
I'm guessing you've never seen what the stock pump looks like, 69.5. It mounts in a plastic tank and uses a giant plastic "nut" to retain it, so there's no adapting the original retainer setup. Cutting the threads for the retainer would be nigh-on impossible; it would be easier to make a sand mold out of the old tank's flange and cast an aluminum one to have TIGed to the tank. Then there's the issue of tank depth, which is far more shallow on the Fury than it is on the Dakota.
Of course, all of this is immaterial, since the Dakota pump won't fit through the hole anyhow. The thing is huge. :doh:
Methinks you're going to have to get into some fabrication work. Here's what I'd do, personally, in your situation. I would have a custom plate made of about 1/8" steel plate to fit the flange on the tank. Cut the top part of the feed line off the original sending unit (outside the tank) flush so you can get measurements on its precise location. Drill a hole in the new plate in the same relative position as the original feed line (yeah, you'll have to do a little math), as close to the exact outer diameter of 3/8" steel line as you can. The tighter the better, as long as you can push it through. Shove the steel line through, and duplicate the factory bends on the in-tank section of the original sending unit. Once you have it as close as you can get it, solder or weld the new feed tube (I'd solder it) making sure it's sealed and correctly clocked in relation to the tank. Take careful measurements of the location of the sender's position and clocking on the feed tube, and carefully remove it from the old sending unit. Weld it into the correct position on the new sender. Drill another hole, this one for 5/16" steel line, and make a return into the tank that cuts at a 30°-45° angle inside the tank, pointing away from the sending unit float or the nearest tank wall. Drill a hole to install an insulated stud for your sending unit's wire. Bend your topside lines as needed to make them work. Make a gasket for the flange and install the sender, with a piece of wire terminated in ring terminals. One goes under a bolt retaining the sender, one goes to a good frame ground.
But wait, you say... what about the pump? Use an external framerail-mounted pump. I've got my eye on the Summit G3137 for my own project, but I don't know how loud it is. Usually that style pump is pretty quiet, and the mounting clamps are insulated. Yes, you will also need an external EFI pressure regulator and you'll have to make a modification to the fuel rails (preferably after the last injector in line) and run a return line. The stock Dakota system is "returnless" as the regulator is atop the pump module and just dumps excess back into the tank. The injectors don't care what's feeding them so long as they're getting a steady 38-43PSI at their inlets.
If pump noise is a concern (as it is to me), make a frame bracket to which it bolts that is anchored in rubber-isolated well nuts (there's a name for them, I just can't think of it at the moment). If you're really paranoid, which you shouldn't be with a return system, you could mount the pump to the bracket with same. Silence is golden.
I believe Carter still makes a 3/8" strainer but I don't know for sure since I haven't seen a Carter catalog in over a year. If not, use a high-flow filter before the pump such as an Allstar 40218. I actually have that filter on a shelf behind me, and for a reusable 63-micron element, you can literally breathe through it unimpeded! 63 microns is tighter than most factory pickup strainers, for the record. As an added plus, it's a stainless-steel media so it can be reused again and again. A friend of mine has had one on an LT1-powere Jeep rock crawler for 5 years and hasn't yet had to clean it. You'll want a tighter filter upstream, though.
The only real caveats about this setup are that you need to make sure the sender resistance range is the same between the Fury and Dakota senders and making sure the system is sealed securely. I don't care what they tell you at the parts store, EFI-rated hose clamps are a stop-gap measure. Personally, I'd use factory-style quick-release plastic lines but AN fittings and the proper hose are probably easier. If you go that route, I'd suggest Mr. Gasket's "Shadow Series" hose and fittings. Believe it or not, most braided-steel AN-style line is not actually rated for fuel. It won't leak or deteriorate necessarily, but when EFI Ed converted from the carb he complained of always smelling gas in the garage even though the car never dripped a single drop. He didn't specify what he used to solve the problem, but I know he stayed with AN and got rid of the braided-steel Aeromotive hose and the problem went away.
I know I didn't go into much detail, but I think you can figure it out.
A simpler option, of course, would be to just go ahead and buy the Aeromotive pump and have a flange made to weld into the tank after you cut out the old one. Make sure the work is done by a competent TIG welder, though, because the slightest pinhole and you'll smell fuel all the time. Oh, and that route also leaves you up a tree as far as a functioning fuel gauge, since the Aeromotive pump doesn't have a sending unit. It's just a pump.
Of course, all of this is immaterial, since the Dakota pump won't fit through the hole anyhow. The thing is huge. :doh:
Methinks you're going to have to get into some fabrication work. Here's what I'd do, personally, in your situation. I would have a custom plate made of about 1/8" steel plate to fit the flange on the tank. Cut the top part of the feed line off the original sending unit (outside the tank) flush so you can get measurements on its precise location. Drill a hole in the new plate in the same relative position as the original feed line (yeah, you'll have to do a little math), as close to the exact outer diameter of 3/8" steel line as you can. The tighter the better, as long as you can push it through. Shove the steel line through, and duplicate the factory bends on the in-tank section of the original sending unit. Once you have it as close as you can get it, solder or weld the new feed tube (I'd solder it) making sure it's sealed and correctly clocked in relation to the tank. Take careful measurements of the location of the sender's position and clocking on the feed tube, and carefully remove it from the old sending unit. Weld it into the correct position on the new sender. Drill another hole, this one for 5/16" steel line, and make a return into the tank that cuts at a 30°-45° angle inside the tank, pointing away from the sending unit float or the nearest tank wall. Drill a hole to install an insulated stud for your sending unit's wire. Bend your topside lines as needed to make them work. Make a gasket for the flange and install the sender, with a piece of wire terminated in ring terminals. One goes under a bolt retaining the sender, one goes to a good frame ground.
But wait, you say... what about the pump? Use an external framerail-mounted pump. I've got my eye on the Summit G3137 for my own project, but I don't know how loud it is. Usually that style pump is pretty quiet, and the mounting clamps are insulated. Yes, you will also need an external EFI pressure regulator and you'll have to make a modification to the fuel rails (preferably after the last injector in line) and run a return line. The stock Dakota system is "returnless" as the regulator is atop the pump module and just dumps excess back into the tank. The injectors don't care what's feeding them so long as they're getting a steady 38-43PSI at their inlets.
If pump noise is a concern (as it is to me), make a frame bracket to which it bolts that is anchored in rubber-isolated well nuts (there's a name for them, I just can't think of it at the moment). If you're really paranoid, which you shouldn't be with a return system, you could mount the pump to the bracket with same. Silence is golden.
I believe Carter still makes a 3/8" strainer but I don't know for sure since I haven't seen a Carter catalog in over a year. If not, use a high-flow filter before the pump such as an Allstar 40218. I actually have that filter on a shelf behind me, and for a reusable 63-micron element, you can literally breathe through it unimpeded! 63 microns is tighter than most factory pickup strainers, for the record. As an added plus, it's a stainless-steel media so it can be reused again and again. A friend of mine has had one on an LT1-powere Jeep rock crawler for 5 years and hasn't yet had to clean it. You'll want a tighter filter upstream, though.
The only real caveats about this setup are that you need to make sure the sender resistance range is the same between the Fury and Dakota senders and making sure the system is sealed securely. I don't care what they tell you at the parts store, EFI-rated hose clamps are a stop-gap measure. Personally, I'd use factory-style quick-release plastic lines but AN fittings and the proper hose are probably easier. If you go that route, I'd suggest Mr. Gasket's "Shadow Series" hose and fittings. Believe it or not, most braided-steel AN-style line is not actually rated for fuel. It won't leak or deteriorate necessarily, but when EFI Ed converted from the carb he complained of always smelling gas in the garage even though the car never dripped a single drop. He didn't specify what he used to solve the problem, but I know he stayed with AN and got rid of the braided-steel Aeromotive hose and the problem went away.
I know I didn't go into much detail, but I think you can figure it out.
A simpler option, of course, would be to just go ahead and buy the Aeromotive pump and have a flange made to weld into the tank after you cut out the old one. Make sure the work is done by a competent TIG welder, though, because the slightest pinhole and you'll smell fuel all the time. Oh, and that route also leaves you up a tree as far as a functioning fuel gauge, since the Aeromotive pump doesn't have a sending unit. It's just a pump.
340EH
Well-known member
The stock Dak piece is too tall and too difficult to mount. But it is a sub assembly that can be broken down into smaller parts.
I had figured on doing a little fab anyhow doc before I bought the custom tank. It does not use the stock style fury pickup and sender, it has a baffled sump and the hole is through the top in a little depression on top of the tank.
http://s8.postimage.org/5zmdni58j/IMG_4831.jpg
lacking a bolt in pump solution i was planning on cutting a disk from stainless that would attach to the existing 8 threaded holes and drilling a hole for the stock regulator and grommet, and a grommeted hole for the wiring then a simple standoff to clamp a universal pump to. Since my engine will remain stock and the pump will be accessible for possible future upgrades I figure I should have all my basses covered.
Aeromotive has a neat new universal setup which looks a lot like what I was putting together in my head I like the solution they have for the vent, as I don't really know what I've got on my hands with the two fittings on my tank.
http://aeromotiveinc.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/18688.jpg
Thanks everyone for continuing to offer advice and experience It means a lot to me.
I had figured on doing a little fab anyhow doc before I bought the custom tank. It does not use the stock style fury pickup and sender, it has a baffled sump and the hole is through the top in a little depression on top of the tank.
http://s8.postimage.org/5zmdni58j/IMG_4831.jpg
lacking a bolt in pump solution i was planning on cutting a disk from stainless that would attach to the existing 8 threaded holes and drilling a hole for the stock regulator and grommet, and a grommeted hole for the wiring then a simple standoff to clamp a universal pump to. Since my engine will remain stock and the pump will be accessible for possible future upgrades I figure I should have all my basses covered.
Aeromotive has a neat new universal setup which looks a lot like what I was putting together in my head I like the solution they have for the vent, as I don't really know what I've got on my hands with the two fittings on my tank.
http://aeromotiveinc.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/18688.jpg
Thanks everyone for continuing to offer advice and experience It means a lot to me.
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Dr.Jass
Pastor of Muppets
The smaller hole is for a fuel sending unit; that looks like a universal Stewart-Warner style flange (many other gauge companies use it as well).
I realized it didn't use the stock pickup, but if you can't even put the pickup in the correct place it seems a little daft. Some unknown engineer spent a lot of time putting that pickup in the right place; then again I suppose the baffling is there to overcome fuel slosh. I'm not sure why you're hell-bent on an in-tank pump; that would be my last option. I'd much rather unbolt a bad pump from a frame rail than have to drop a half-full tank to get to it.
Oh, one other thing just occurred to me. Since your engine is stock, you'll definitely want to avoid an Aeromotive A1000 or similar. EFI Ed had problems with his A1000, and not because of the quality. When it failed he talked to Aeromotive about it (his career position gives him unique opportunities). They flat-out told him that was way too much pump for what he was doing, and that's why he'd burned up two of them. The fuel system simply couldn't hang with the pump's capabilities. That's a 492-inch RB with 30-something lb/hr injectors and a camshaft with more than .550" lift. You'll get by for much less money and have better reliability with a lot less pump. Even Wal-Bro's excellent 255lph pump would be more than you need, but it would be a lot more reliable and a bunch less money. It's quiet and can be mounted in-tank or on the rail.
I realized it didn't use the stock pickup, but if you can't even put the pickup in the correct place it seems a little daft. Some unknown engineer spent a lot of time putting that pickup in the right place; then again I suppose the baffling is there to overcome fuel slosh. I'm not sure why you're hell-bent on an in-tank pump; that would be my last option. I'd much rather unbolt a bad pump from a frame rail than have to drop a half-full tank to get to it.
Oh, one other thing just occurred to me. Since your engine is stock, you'll definitely want to avoid an Aeromotive A1000 or similar. EFI Ed had problems with his A1000, and not because of the quality. When it failed he talked to Aeromotive about it (his career position gives him unique opportunities). They flat-out told him that was way too much pump for what he was doing, and that's why he'd burned up two of them. The fuel system simply couldn't hang with the pump's capabilities. That's a 492-inch RB with 30-something lb/hr injectors and a camshaft with more than .550" lift. You'll get by for much less money and have better reliability with a lot less pump. Even Wal-Bro's excellent 255lph pump would be more than you need, but it would be a lot more reliable and a bunch less money. It's quiet and can be mounted in-tank or on the rail.
69.5CUDA
Blah Blah Blah
the bonus of in tank is that its alot more quiet and the theory is that he fuel keeps them cooler....tho i completly agree with you doc about mounting a pump on the rails..i wish i knew what the audi/bmw/alfa pump flowed cause thats a VERY quiet pump and very universal in design
340EH
Well-known member
Well I got off my ass and took the springs to the local spring experts and they can rebuild them to stock specs for the price of mail order springs from the states. Feels good to try to give the work to the hometown guy. Still trying to summon up the courage to cut the dash for the Dakota cluster, I don't want to mess it up and have to remove the glass to get a new dash so I'm being overcautious to the point of stagnation.
The good news is that I'm not on nights for the time being, which means I'm rotating two weeks on days 7-3 and two weeks on afternoons 3-11 and the wife has said she expects me to be working on the car during the days when I'm on afternoons. can't scrape and paint in the unheated garage going to try focusing on wires and small welding things.
The good news is that I'm not on nights for the time being, which means I'm rotating two weeks on days 7-3 and two weeks on afternoons 3-11 and the wife has said she expects me to be working on the car during the days when I'm on afternoons. can't scrape and paint in the unheated garage going to try focusing on wires and small welding things.
Dr.Jass
Pastor of Muppets
The best thing I can tell you as far as the cluster goes is to take measurements off the truck piece--depth, distance, etc.--then see what you have to work with as far as the dash in the car, taking measurements from it as well. It's time-consuming but to me stuff like that is also a lot of fun when I make it work. You have no idea how much time I spent making a factory-looking tach for the LeBaron, but the result would've fooled everyone into thinking it was stock and wondering where the hell I'd found something that never existed.