WELDING question ? WARPING METAL ? how ? when ? why ?

[rav440]

ive been reading and hearing horror stories about welding and warping metal . since im welding the pieces on my firewall of the road runner . i just have to ask . what is the major problem welding ? alot of my friend told me to yse that new 3M adhisive stuff but i just dont like the idea of glueing metal maybe on a new car ifs fine but i want metal to metal on my road runner . if there was damage then the damage is done already . the pieces we welded on the runner were small 4" X 4" but they were tacked on jumping back and forth not a continuos weld .
sodoes the metal really warp that much or is this something that is more to woriy about when welding on a 1/4 pannel or body patch ?

 

[Dr.Jass]

You did it the right way by jumping around making tack welds. The big problem comes in when one tries to do a continuous weld, particularly on a large panel... and yes, it's that bad. I watched one feller attempt to weld a lower-quarter patch on an A-body. He had to go back and cut that, as well as a lot of original sheetmetal, off and install a much-larger patch (over the mid-body line). He didn't even try a continuous weld; he was doing maybe 1.5" beads and jumping around the panel.

I know it can be done by very-good welders with very-good equipment. I'm not that good, nor is my welder.

 

[dodgechargerfan]

Yep. Too much heat in one place is bad.

Jumping around lets the metal cool down at the site of your last weld while you work on another area.

 

[69.5CUDA]

you HAVE to jump around or the heat build and youll ALWAYS do 1 of 2 things..blow or hole or warp the shit out of it..smaller patches you can sometimes get lucky and run a bead but generaly speaking youll always warp it...hell even 1/4inch steel if its over welded will warp..best example i can think of is look at the stitch work i did in the floors of my lloyd...thicker mettal WILL let you be a lil less carefull and run a bead in short bursts but you STILL have to jump and let things cool

 

[restoman]

Yep. Half inch long welds maximum spaced six inches or so apart and going back and forth on the panel is the safe way. It never hurts to keep a bucket of cold water and a rag nearby to occasionally soak the welds - it'll shrink them back to where they should be. I've seen more than a few otherwise good bodymen get carried away while welding and run some really hot and long welds too close together. More often than not, I've been the poor bastard who gets to fix these screw-ups. Not a fun way to spend an afternoon, let me tell ya.
Warps are not the end of the world however. I've inflicted some warp-drive characteristics on some undeserving cars myself. It happens to every bodyman at some point. They CAN be eliminated without tearing things apart and re-doing.
MIG machines can be tricky. Sometimes its difficult to know how much heat your putting in while welding, and it is more difficult to control this heat.
Gas welding is much slower and not as strong, but I don't think I've ever had to deal with warpage from a torch. It's like driving a stick shift - everything is in your control. Takes years to get good at it tho'.

Don't listen to your friends about gluing patches in structural areas like firewalls. Adhesives are fantastic, if used properly. Someone who thinks it's ok to glue patches on a firewall doesn't know enough to make an informed decision, or how to use them properly.

 

[Foggy]

Yes, doing the stitchweld thing works well, but I've also used a 'heat sink' also. Any putty will do. Drain caulking for instance......

 

[rav440]

Yes, doing the stitchweld thing works well, but I've also used a 'heat sink' also. Any putty will do. Drain caulking for instance......

FOGGY , im not sure what you are meaning . :huh:

 

[69.5CUDA]

silicone will suck heat from an area and it takes EXTREEME heat to burn...i know dryice was used for decades

 

[rav440]

silicone will suck heat from an area and it takes EXTREEME heat to burn...i know dryice was used for decades

i would think the fumes from silicone would choke you out if not cause major dain bramage :hmmm:

 

[giowest]

i would think the fumes from silicone would choke you out if not cause major dain bramage :hmmm:

He asked an honest question way too late so just leave it be, :giggedy:

 

[69.5CUDA]

thats assuming you managed to get it hot enuf..remember silicone can take HUGE heat

 

[restoman]

thats assuming you managed to get it hot enuf..remember silicone can take HUGE heat

AND, unless you put a flame directly on the silicone, it won't harm any future priming or painting jobs.

If it does start to burn tho', stop what you're doing and put on the respirator (which you should wear while welding anyway).

 

[Foggy]

String two lines of rolled putty on each side of the weld, maybe .5" from the seam. I've never had the putty burn, and it can be used over and over. And it's cheap to buy. Always worked well for me. Although its tough to use other than on a flat or level work. It tends to fall off when it gets warm...........

 

[rav440]

i have my friends lincoln mig welder . what setting should i use ? D 2 ? :hmmm:

 

[restoman]

2 or 3
You want the welds to be as hot as possible without burning through the steel. If you burn through at 3, drop it to 2. Wire speed is important when doing sheet metal - too slow and burn-through happens at just about any amperage, or the wire burns back to the welding tip and you get to take a break from welding while fishing the wire through.

 

[rav440]

2 or 3
You want the welds to be as hot as possible without burning through the steel. If you burn through at 3, drop it to 2. Wire speed is important when doing sheet metal - too slow and burn-through happens at just about any amperage, or the wire burns back to the welding tip and you get to take a break from welding while fishing the wire through.

yep ive done both ive gone thru about 5 tips so far :doh:also made more holes than what i was trying to fix coz some of the areas im welding are paper thin .

 

[69.5CUDA]

oh your playing rust hole fixer LOL thats the life HAHAHAHAH...ok once you have a hole dont try to weld it..tack at the edges not on the hole edge but just in from it ...quick little click click click of the trigger all the way around the hole make about 3 circles of the hole..if it burns back it burns back and youll have to do it again...its a trick i foundbut you need to be about 1/8th in from the hole if your in REALLY thin area you may need to bump down the amps/temp and do this to build yourself some surface by tacking a boarder and then kick it back up to 2 ..DONOT try to weld at the very edge of it if its thin stuff cause your just going to burn it....if your ultra thin like this once you can see the hole orange in your helmet stop and let it cool before tacking at it more......to be honest if your this thin you "SHOULD" cut out the area..but...i know thats not always an option

those tips can probably be saved..you just need a tiny drill bit...but next time you weld the tip off ..unthread it and cut the wire off about 1 inch from the tip..break out some plyers hold the wire tight at the tip and roll the plyers and you will useualy break it free and fix the tip at the same time

 

[restoman]

oh your playing rust hole fixer LOL thats the life HAHAHAHAH...ok once you have a hole dont try to weld it..tack at the edges not on the hole edge but just in from it ...quick little click click click of the trigger all the way around the hole make about 3 circles of the hole..if it burns back it burns back and youll have to do it again...its a trick i foundbut you need to be about 1/8th in from the hole if your in REALLY thin area you may need to bump down the amps/temp and do this to build yourself some surface by tacking a boarder and then kick it back up to 2 ..DONOT try to weld at the very edge of it if its thin stuff cause your just going to burn it....if your ultra thin like this once you can see the hole orange in your helmet stop and let it cool before tacking at it more......to be honest if your this thin you "SHOULD" cut out the area..but...i know thats not always an option

those tips can probably be saved..you just need a tiny drill bit...but next time you weld the tip off ..unthread it and cut the wire off about 1 inch from the tip..break out some plyers hold the wire tight at the tip and roll the plyers and you will useualy break it free and fix the tip at the same time

Heart-felt profanity helps too, as well as kicking something.

 

[69.5CUDA]

LOL that it does huh

try welding up a rotted fuel tank.....the rust in them dont get much thinner...mind you its a bike tank ..but yeah holes happen figuring out how to weld them up is an art