There's a 65 four speed bellhousing for sale near me for $40

[TheIronSausage]

Why shouldn't I buy it? All 833 bell housings are the same, right? Its advertised as a '65 4 speed bell housing.. There weren't any other small block four speeds then were there?

Also, in Richmond there's a guy selling a three speed manual from a '73 340 Challenger.. Who the hell checked that box?

 

[TheIronSausage]

http://martinsburg.craigslist.org/pts/5430736941.html

 

[Dr.Jass]

Why shouldn't I buy it?

If you're going to flip it on eBay, you most-definitely should if it's not cracked. Look closely. Magnaflux exists for very good reasons.

All 833 bell housings are the same, right?

Not by a mile. This one is cast iron rather than aluminum, might be for a 9.5" clutch which used a smaller flywheel, and may or may not have the correct bosses on the LH side needed for the clutch countershaft arrangement used by the car in which you intend to install it. A casting number would help. The inspection cover is missing and might be hard to find as they varied over the years; same with the starter shield/gasket (which isn't really all that necessary). It's definitely a 4-speed housing, which means there is no 3-speed that will bolt to it. Later aluminum housings have dual bolt patterns.

Its advertised as a '65 4 speed bell housing.. There weren't any other small block four speeds then were there?

A-bodies and some low-peformance B-bodies used the smaller 9.5" clutch, so yes. The starter is the same but the flywheel is different and decent clutch options literally don't exist. If this is a B-body 10.5" housing, it will not fit into an A-body without smashing the pinchweld between the toeboard and firewall out of the way. You literally need to bash it level with the surrounding sheetmetal. You will feel at least somewhat dirty after you do it. It's ugly but necessary.

Also, in Richmond there's a guy selling a three speed manual from a '73 340 Challenger..

It will not bolt to this bellhousing. You'd need the '69-up aluminum bell. There are multiple casting numbers for it, but it has a dual bolt pattern to accept both 3- and 4-speeds. See if the guy with the transmission has the bell that came with it.

Who the hell checked that box?

No one checked any box. That was what you got if you didn't spend the extra money for an automatic or a 4-speed. It was the standard transmission, which is why you still often hear people refer to a manual car as "standard trans".

$40 is a good investment; you'd at least triple that on eBay. My suggestion? Flip it or skip it. Trying to track down the accessories to use it may well be a nightmare, and for performance use? Well, once you lift it you'll understand. It weighs at least 3 times as much as a comparable aluminum bellhousing. :doh:

 

[TheIronSausage]

Again, thanks for the expertise. After I posted this, I found a complete bellhousing, linkage, and OD four speed setup out of an '84 D-150. For $40, I'll take the risk and flip the cast bellhousing..

84 Dodge 4 speed
http://harrisburg.craigslist.org/pts/5383529668.html

I get "standard" transmission, what I meant was, who orders a "performance" 73 Challenger with (albeit a detuned) 340, and skimps on the extra gear. Skimp on the AC, FM, 8 track, Rallye package, fancy seats, etc.. I can see. Skimp on driveability? in a 340 Challenger? I've had three speeds in my trucks, i liked its legs.. I'd want the four speed in my muscle car.

Man, ever since I fell into this 340, I've been scouring the internet for parts to put on it, and cars to put it in. Which then leads me down the dark path of shopping for my other small blocks.. Forget the Valiant seats, or the rust coming through in my otherwise clean truck.. or the entire body on the Valiant. Forget juicing up that 225, screw fixing my porch, to hell with nights out with the wife.. Instead, justify spending money on the idea of a motor (and my 318s) that has a baseball sized hole in one of its cylinders and the transmission I want behind it.. Could be worse I s'pose.

 

[TheIronSausage]

Jass, you're clearly a parts guy.. Where do/did you work?

 

[69.5CUDA]

uhhh when you get there verify its actualy a 4spd CAR unit and not a granny low 4spd that those trucks came with.....also isnt there a tailshaft lngth issue with a truck unit into an A?

 

[Dr.Jass]

Again, thanks for the expertise. After I posted this, I found a complete bellhousing, linkage, and OD four speed setup out of an '84 D-150. For $40, I'll take the risk and flip the cast bellhousing..

84 Dodge 4 speed
http://harrisburg.craigslist.org/pts/5383529668.html

I get "standard" transmission, what I meant was, who orders a "performance" 73 Challenger with (albeit a detuned) 340, and skimps on the extra gear. Skimp on the AC, FM, 8 track, Rallye package, fancy seats, etc.. I can see. Skimp on driveability? in a 340 Challenger? I've had three speeds in my trucks, i liked its legs.. I'd want the four speed in my muscle car.

Man, ever since I fell into this 340, I've been scouring the internet for parts to put on it, and cars to put it in. Which then leads me down the dark path of shopping for my other small blocks.. Forget the Valiant seats, or the rust coming through in my otherwise clean truck.. or the entire body on the Valiant. Forget juicing up that 225, screw fixing my porch, to hell with nights out with the wife.. Instead, justify spending money on the idea of a motor (and my 318s) that has a baseball sized hole in one of its cylinders and the transmission I want behind it.. Could be worse I s'pose.

$10 says that 4-speed OD setup is from a Slant Six. No, it won't fit the iron bell (which I do recommend flipping).

As far as the 340/3-speed, most-likely it's a sales-bank car. The vast majority of musclecars were. Special-order cars are usually dripping with options. It's a rare car, though. Only 279 cars were so equipped. Alas, rare doesn't always mean desirable. Then again, I'd still rather have a 3-speed than an auto. '74 cars were even more bizzare. My Challenger was originally brown with a vinyl top (unknown color) black interior car with a floor-shift auto, AC, and 8-track... with manual steering and brakes. Figure that one out. :wtf:

The 340/overdrive 4-speed setup is actually not a bad combo. The gear ratios are pretty wide, but when you wind it up (and you will) you'll find a shift putting you back in the meat of the powerband. The OD has a 3.09:1 first gear, which makes your 3.23 behave like 4-series gear at launch when compared to the first gear ratio in an A727 or A904. Overdrive is .71:1 on the truck transmissions, so at cruise it's like having a 2.29:1 rear axle much like you'd find in a later Fifth Avenue. A 3.55 is a viable gear as well, with my estimation of the "perfect" rear gear being the 3.36:1 ratio used in '60-'61 only. Good luck finding one of those, but 3.23s are pretty close and pretty easy to find.

I am a parts guy, currently working at a local CarQuest store. From '96-'98 I was Year One's go-to Mopar tech guy while working in R&D and later on their national event staff. Yeah, I got paid $40K a year to go to car shows and talk cars all day with people that stopped by the display. :dance: I left there to work at Ray Barton Racing Engines (passing up on a huge offer from Classic Industries to move to CA start up a Mopar catalog for them) but ultimately came back home to be near family. I worked as a fiber-optics systems engineer for a few years, lived off eBay sales for a couple more, and have spent the rest of the time since '99 wasting my talents in local parts stores, although I do have the rep as the "if they make it or something that will work, he can find it" guy in 3 counties. Toot, toot. That's me finishing up on my own horn.

 

[Dr.Jass]

uhhh when you get there verify its actualy a 4spd CAR unit and not a granny low 4spd that those trucks came with.....also isnt there a tailshaft lngth issue with a truck unit into an A?

I've never seen a granny-low transmission in an '80s D150. I'm not saying they don't exist, just that I've never seen one. W150, yes. Regardless, the ad says overdrive. The only overdrive 4-speed used in '70s/'80s 2WD fullsize trucks was the A833OD. Granny transmissions are all 1:1 final drive.

Good catch on the tailshaft length, though. You'll be pretty damned close to the exact factory location with the truck shifter and linkage if you use a custom mount to lower the shifter, which sits very high in the truck applications. Board member Diplomat_Wagon did exactly that with his namesake 4-speed car and it looked factory. The argument could be made about potential driveshaft angularity, but considering the Valiant as the same wheelbase as an E-body Barracuda (108"), it's pretty much null: E-bodies only had long-tail B-body transmissions, regardless of type.

 

[TheIronSausage]

Cuda, the setup isn't necessarily for the A, just something for the future.. Even if the tail shaft doesn't fit, I still have a z bar, bell housing and linkage for something that does.. As for the Valiant, I really like the pushbutton trans.. It's the only one I don't actively want to swap.

Jass, if the truck setup is for a six, I'll probably nab it despite the bellhousing anyway. I'll never own a four banger backed by an automatic, and I'll barely tolerate a six or an eight with one (Valiant notwithstanding, I like quirky). I have problems with authority, and that includes my cars telling me what gear to be in and when. I'm coming into about $3000 in funny money from customer's cars. I choose to collect parts when I've got the scratch, and install them when I've got the time. Right now is collection mode. I've also been selling off a lot of stuff I've gathered from cars I no longer have. I'm considering selling two of my Volvos and another car's worth of parts.. They're fun, but my recent 440 purchase reminded me how much more I like gobs of torque and questionable styling.. I'll always come back to a Mopar.

 

[71ChargerRT]

A buddy of mine had a '72 Challenger Rallye with a 340/3speed. He swapped in a 4 because he had one lying around.

He hecently sold that car for $11K, it was mostly original, except paint, the engine was really tired and smoked like a Duratrash with a bad tune.