There should be a twelve step program for this.. I have a problem.
- Thread starter TheIronSausage
- Start date
Not A Duster
Well-known member
Agree strongly. Had the bits to convert the Demon to power brakes, but kept it manual - even with the '73 - up front discs...
I did install a modern master cylinder.
Dr.Jass
Pastor of Muppets
The brakes on the Valiant work surprisingly well considering they're only manual 9" drums. They're new, or at least were when he parked it years ago. Not crazy about the tiny ball joints used on the 9" drum cars, mind you, but they stop well.
I've nearly made a career out of flinging power boosters. I much prefer the feel and modulation of manual, and it dumps extraneous weight too. :dance:
I've nearly made a career out of flinging power boosters. I much prefer the feel and modulation of manual, and it dumps extraneous weight too. :dance:
Not A Duster
Well-known member
I despise anti-locks. Disconnected them on the shop van...feels much better, specially when pulling the trailer.
TheIronSausage
Two brain cells left.. rubbing together for warmth
So, this is where I get questionable stares and people either think I'm an idiot, or tell me I'm a hazard to myself and others.. I drill the shit out of my backing plates and drums to ventilate my brakes.
Here's how it works. Around the perimeter of the backing plate, drill a bunch (40 or so?) of #1 holes in the groove where the surface of the shoe lives. Then hog out the adjuster holes on the bottom of the backing plate to as large as you're comfortable with.. I did mine with a carbide reamer in a die grinder. Please ignore the shoddy spacing around the plate, and funny shaped holes in the bottom.. Not normally my style, but I had a cracked rib when I did this, and coughing felt like somebody stabbing me, let alone using a slide hammer. These were done on the car.
Then, (and this is where people freak out) drill your drums in a spiral pattern so that as much of the face of the shoe gets wiped by the holes as possible (drums are at least 3/8" thick.. They're fine). That is to say, imagine a straight line of holes from the front of the drum to the back. Leave the first where it is, move the second to the next hour on the clock, the third to the one after that and so on around the circumference so they're evenly spread out around the drum.
What this does, is basically turn the drum into a centrifugal air pump. Water, heat, and brake dust get ejected from the drum as the wheels turn. I've done this to a couple of cars now, and I've been able to drive through mountains, sit in stop and go DC traffic, drive through bad rainstorms and puddles all without brake fade or soaking problems.. As an added bonus, the inside of the brakes stay nice and clean, so there's no servicing, or unsticking of the star wheel necessary except shoe replacement and whatever adjusting needs to be done. It's worth mentioning that I drive my cars very hard. I typically brake harder and later into corners, and try to carry speed through, because everything I drive is such a slug, and because it's fun, dammit.
The only disadvantage I've found, is that you can't turn the drums after the modification. At least, I haven't tried..
Here's how it works. Around the perimeter of the backing plate, drill a bunch (40 or so?) of #1 holes in the groove where the surface of the shoe lives. Then hog out the adjuster holes on the bottom of the backing plate to as large as you're comfortable with.. I did mine with a carbide reamer in a die grinder. Please ignore the shoddy spacing around the plate, and funny shaped holes in the bottom.. Not normally my style, but I had a cracked rib when I did this, and coughing felt like somebody stabbing me, let alone using a slide hammer. These were done on the car.
Then, (and this is where people freak out) drill your drums in a spiral pattern so that as much of the face of the shoe gets wiped by the holes as possible (drums are at least 3/8" thick.. They're fine). That is to say, imagine a straight line of holes from the front of the drum to the back. Leave the first where it is, move the second to the next hour on the clock, the third to the one after that and so on around the circumference so they're evenly spread out around the drum.
What this does, is basically turn the drum into a centrifugal air pump. Water, heat, and brake dust get ejected from the drum as the wheels turn. I've done this to a couple of cars now, and I've been able to drive through mountains, sit in stop and go DC traffic, drive through bad rainstorms and puddles all without brake fade or soaking problems.. As an added bonus, the inside of the brakes stay nice and clean, so there's no servicing, or unsticking of the star wheel necessary except shoe replacement and whatever adjusting needs to be done. It's worth mentioning that I drive my cars very hard. I typically brake harder and later into corners, and try to carry speed through, because everything I drive is such a slug, and because it's fun, dammit.
The only disadvantage I've found, is that you can't turn the drums after the modification. At least, I haven't tried..
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Not A Duster
Well-known member
I would have thunk the holes in the drum would chew the hell out of the brake shoes....but I guess if you are getting away with it, I thunk wrong.
TheIronSausage
Two brain cells left.. rubbing together for warmth
You should knock the inside ridge down with a wiz wheel after drilling, but because the shoe is a smooth surface, and the holes are a void of material instead of an edge like like a razor, it seems to work.. I got the idea off of a website years ago.. I tried it on a junker $200 '71 Valiant I had. It worked okay, and I've refined it since. But I noticed the shoes and hardware stayed clean, and I didn't have to drag the brakes after driving through standing water.. I've done it to about four cars, all with four wheel drums. I don't bother doing the rears on disc front ends, no real need.
Not A Duster
Well-known member
I suppose it's no different than drilled rotors, but.....
TheIronSausage
Two brain cells left.. rubbing together for warmth
Oh, I get it.. Not everybody's cup of tea. Like I said, I tried it on a real shitbox first.. I was much younger, and didn't know anything about anything, I was nervous. Some jack wagon on the internets says that I should drill a bunch of holes in my brakes and there's a swimming pool on the roof? I didn't take the car up to any kind of speed for a while, once a week, I'd pull the drums and check them.. As I got more comfortable with it, I started taking it up on the highway. I was still driving my first car, a '68 Satellite, four wheel drums as well. I started comparing brakes after putting miles on them, the Satellite's were always filthy, and ultimately required more adjustment more often. The Valiant's shoes were smooth, the star wheel wasn't frozen, Sold after that.
68R/T
I got drunk and swallowed my teeth, now
....in a way, but a major improvement over stock drums. The problems of drums are dust buildup, moisture retention and heat. By eliminating these problems a drum brake has more swept area than a disk. It only lacks the clamping force of disks. :huh:
Not A Duster
Well-known member
so, have you done this Mr. 68?
68R/T
I got drunk and swallowed my teeth, now
I was never aware of the possibility of it being done. But when you think of the drawbacks of drums mentioned by FerruleDick, it seems like a very logical modification. :hmmm:
69.5CUDA
Blah Blah Blah
its f-ing briliant...think of the cooling fins done on some big car drums..it never worked well..then you have stuff with air scoop backing plates..worked "ok"...this seems like an evolutionary change that SHOULD have happened......all in all i see ZERO reason you couldnt get a drum turned either
Not A Duster
Well-known member
Okay... So it's still a case of a nutty theatre guy making shit up.
...Brilliant. :clap:
TheIronSausage
Two brain cells left.. rubbing together for warmth
I resent that, I'm not really a theatre guy.. It's fun building weird stuff, but the people who think this is life drive me nuts.. I trade my time for money like all of you. Making shit up is fun, though..
Not A Duster
Well-known member
Dude from my perspective, being a theatre guy is not a bad thing....
I was an entertainment lighting designer/director for almost 3 decades, along with building stages and doing carp stuff. Now make my living selling lighting, rigging and soft goods to guys like you... Heck, my business partner has a BFA in stage management & technical theatre, I don't hold that against her....
And I actually do think what you've done with those drums is brilliant. For what my opinion's worth.
TheIronSausage
Two brain cells left.. rubbing together for warmth
I'm not actually offended. I'm a TD/ATD/shop manager depending on the show I like all of the problem solving, people manipulation, and construction I get to do. I just can't stand musicals, I don't know any of the shows, and I don't let the kids sing or dance in my shop. Truth be told, I'd love my job if it weren't for artists who have no clue how even the simplest of physics work. Your opinion does count, this is the first place I've mentioned the brake thing without people trying to take my keys from me, and insisting I was going to run over their puppy due to my haphazard incompetence
Not A Duster
Well-known member
I totally knew what you were getting at. While on the road, I often said that my life would a whole lot easier without those pesky musicians..... My partner assures me that actors & dancers can be far worse. I read your post aloud to her and she nearly pissed herself laughing. She has often referred to her (former) career in stage management as "herding cats."
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TheIronSausage
Two brain cells left.. rubbing together for warmth
Today I learned that a slant six will run and drive at.. Ready for this?
FORTY EIGHT DEGREES INTIAL TIMING.
I put ten miles on it or so since I've had it, and thought the engine was on its last legs.. Smoke coming out of the breather, ran like shit. Put it to TDC because I didn't believe the timing light, sure enough.. Distributor clocked in several teeth off. Retimed everything, put it all back together and it does peg leg burnouts on wet pavement and even spins a tire on the one-two shift. On wet pavement.. Let's bring it back down to earth here. This little 225 runs like a raped ape (for a 225, again.. reality). Now I guess I have to get it registered or something.
FORTY EIGHT DEGREES INTIAL TIMING.
I put ten miles on it or so since I've had it, and thought the engine was on its last legs.. Smoke coming out of the breather, ran like shit. Put it to TDC because I didn't believe the timing light, sure enough.. Distributor clocked in several teeth off. Retimed everything, put it all back together and it does peg leg burnouts on wet pavement and even spins a tire on the one-two shift. On wet pavement.. Let's bring it back down to earth here. This little 225 runs like a raped ape (for a 225, again.. reality). Now I guess I have to get it registered or something.