New from Indiana

[SAM]

New guy here from Columbus, Indiana. A little about myself, I work at the Cummins Tech Center here in Columbus, I'm 22 years old. Been into Mopars for as long as I've been alive. My whole family works at Chrysler or is retired from there, so it's in my blood. I have much experience with diesel engines and diesel performance, though I'm fairly new to gas stuff. I have the mechanical ability just not the knowledge when it comes to building a gas engine.

I left the diesel scene here recently because I grew tired of all the idiots taking it over and giving it a bad name. So here I am. I'm a member of the Competition Diesel forum and a few other diesel forums.

I recently purchased a 318 out of a 72 duster and have plans of building it here in the near future after I get moved into my new house.

I'd like to learn as much as possible and help out where I can. Thanks for having me on your forum!

 

[Dr.Jass]

We have a few diesel guys around here, but nothing like the scene to which you're accustomed. I work in a diesel shop where we do a lot of high-perf stuff, but as much as the guys try to convert me, I'll stick with spark plugs. I've learned quite a bit working there, but the biggest lesson: diesels can be expensive toys. People don't look at what it really takes to make them haul ass, and when they break your account and wallet are often well drained by the time you're driving it again.

We're happy to have you here, and feel free to ask questions. The spark-ignition world is a bit of a jump from diesels (and vice-versa), but they're all still just air pumps.

 

[SAM]

Yes sir. I know first hand just how diesel will break the bank. It took me almost 2 years to get my truck in the lowly 600 horse range and have the drivetrain to handle it. That's fueling upgrades, turbos, billet transmissions and all of the small internal parts that really make a difference in high boost, high rpm diesel engines. It just gets stupid expensive and frustrating. I've owned 3, a 1990, 2000, and a 2006. Sold them all and I'm now driving a 2001 half ton gas Ram. Happy to have some money in my pockets now and really excited to start down the spark ignition path.

Thanks for the warm welcome. Glad to be here!

 

[SAM]

Oh, and here's the 318. Really the only thing I plan on using from it is the block.

 

[thrashingcows]

Hey Welcome Sam!!

I was the exact opossite of you about 3 years ago. Always had gas motors, then got my first Cummins. Steep learning curve on that one!! Biggest thing with diesels is that most guys want to be able to say they have "X" hundred horse power, and "X" Ftlbs of torque. And then want to be able to pull their 35 foot 5th wheel up the mountain pass at 80+ MPH. As you stated all these upgrades cost money, and cause the engines to run on the edge of failure.

I'll take my stock 160Hp, and 400ftlbs of torque and have a motor that will get a Million miles, and still be ticking. I just take it slow and steady...I'll still get there.

 

[Dr.Jass]

That engine might have come out of a '72 Duster, but it wasn't originally installed in one. The heads and valve covers are definitely from a later year, as evident by the blocked air-injection tubes in the heads and the bracket on the valve cover. Those could be 360 heads, which might be a good thing depending on what your plan for the engine is.

 

[71ChargerRT]

Looks like a truck bracket hanging off the side of it too.

 

[SAM]

Hey Welcome Sam!!

I was the exact opossite of you about 3 years ago. Always had gas motors, then got my first Cummins. Steep learning curve on that one!! Biggest thing with diesels is that most guys want to be able to say they have "X" hundred horse power, and "X" Ftlbs of torque. And then want to be able to pull their 35 foot 5th wheel up the mountain pass at 80+ MPH. As you stated all these upgrades cost money, and cause the engines to run on the edge of failure.

I'll take my stock 160Hp, and 400ftlbs of torque and have a motor that will get a Million miles, and still be ticking. I just take it slow and steady...I'll still get there.

Haha you're exactly right bud. I just have a hard time leaving anything stock because I have a severe horsepower addiction.

 

[SAM]

That engine might have come out of a '72 Duster, but it wasn't originally installed in one. The heads and valve covers are definitely from a later year, as evident by the blocked air-injection tubes in the heads and the bracket on the valve cover. Those could be 360 heads, which might be a good thing depending on what your plan for the engine is.

That's actually a very good thing because my plan was to make it a 408 stroker. Excuse my ignorance but how can I be for sure that they are in fact 360 heads?

 

[Dr.Jass]

The casting numbers would end in 587, 985, or 308. From the look of the valvecovers, you can almost bet on 587s or 985s if they're 360 heads. The casting number is under the valve cover on either head. Get me the numbers and I'll let you know for sure, though.

The biggest stroker you can safely make with that engine is 392 cubic inches, which is achieved with .040" over on the original 3.910" bore size. A .060" overbore gets you to 396". You can go +.060" and it won't break, but it will make a little less power due to cylinder-wall flex. All Mopar V8 engines are thinwall designs, with the exceptions of the early Hemi and the '66-and-older Polyspheric 318. Either way, you're undersquare on the engine, meaning you've got a stroke longer than your bore is wide. That's not necessarily a bad thing; the less distance the flame front has to travel across the cylinder, the sooner it can start pushing down on the piston, which should make for good bottom-end torque and a great midrange pull.

 

[SAM]

And so begins my learning experience. Haha thanks for clearing that up for me. I'll check the casting numbers when I get back in town Sunday and send ya a message.

 

[dodgechargerfan]

Late to the party here, but Welcome!!

 

[SAM]

Thank you! Glad to be here. All of these high post count guys make me feel like I'm amidst a bunch of Mopar veterans. Hope you guys don't mind taking in a young, dumb, newbie, to gas engines.

So who makes a good stroker kit for the 318? Or is it possible to use a 360 stroker kit? And if all of this is in vain, is there any advantage of building a 318 or should I just look for a 360?

 

[Dr.Jass]

Well, the old saying goes, "There's no replacement for displacement" and it's a mantra because it's right. So, yes, you'd be better off with a 360 (want one? I have an extra ). Still, we had a 318 running in the mid-fourteens back in '88 with the original carburetor... yes, that rinky-dink thing sitting atop your engine as well. That was in a '74 'Cuda, which is no lightweight, with 3.23 gears. 400HP on pump gas on a 318 is actually pretty easy... hell, articles have been written about it being done for around $1,000. The guy in the 454/4-speed about fainted after losing to it, then seeing the carb. You might not even want to do a stroker, really... that's a conversation worth having.

The stroker crank you need would be the same one as a 340, with of course the smaller-diameter pistons. The 360 uses larger main journals, so the crank, caps, and oil pan are different. Not that it matters with a stroker since you'll probably have to have it balanced anyhow, but the 360 is externally balanced whereas almost every other LA engine (273, 318 newer than '66, and 340) are internally balanced. The exception is late '72 and all '73 340s, which were external balance as well. Specific stroker kits are available for 318s, such as here[/i]. Those kits are available as internal, external, or non-balanced options. I've done a lot of business with Mancini over the years; they're pretty good.

 

[SAM]

If you would be willing to part with it, I'd be willing to buy.

So what's possible with them without making it a stroker? Honestly, I'd be happy with around 450 horse. It's eventually going to get dropped into an early 90's or late 80's reg cab, short bed ram. Just want a fun little street toy that makes decent power and sounds good.

 

[Dr.Jass]

You drive here to get it, you can have the damned thing. It's darkened my doorstep long enough. I have a block, crank, heads, and I think there may be a set of rods around for it. I'd have to look.

The #1 thing you need is heads. If you do indeed have 360 heads, that's a good thing. However, not all 360 heads are created equal. I'll go on a little photo expedition in a little while; it's easier to show you with pictures. I'm resisting the urge to write a freakin' novel here.

Just remember, Kerosene Boy, that 450HP is going to require you to use parts of a tachometer you've never seen previously. This post brought to you by the numerals 5, 6, and 7 with support from "x1000".

 

[thrashingcows]

You drive here to get it, you can have the damned thing. It's darkened my doorstep long enough. I have a block, crank, heads, and I think there may be a set of rods around for it. I'd have to look.

The #1 thing you need is heads. If you do indeed have 360 heads, that's a good thing. However, not all 360 heads are created equal. I'll go on a little photo expedition in a little while; it's easier to show you with pictures. I'm resisting the urge to write a freakin' novel here.

Just remember, Kerosene Boy, that 450HP is going to require you to use parts of a tachometer you've never seen previously. This post brought to you by the numerals 5, 6, and 7 with support from "x1000".

And we thank you for not starting that novel....

And your last line there Doc...Great!!:bwuhaha:

 

[Stretch]

If you would be willing to part with it, I'd be willing to buy.

So what's possible with them without making it a stroker? Honestly, I'd be happy with around 450 horse. It's eventually going to get dropped into an early 90's or late 80's reg cab, short bed ram. Just want a fun little street toy that makes decent power and sounds good.

I have a couple of deep sump truck oil pans for the 273/318/340 I'd be willing to part with for a small fee. If you are coming for Jass's stuff I'm 15 min. away from him.

 

[SAM]

I have a couple of deep sump truck oil pans for the 273/318/340 I'd be willing to part with for a small fee. If you are coming for Jass's stuff I'm 15 min. away from him.

Not sure where you guys live. I'd be willing to take them off your hands though!

You drive here to get it, you can have the damned thing. It's darkened my doorstep long enough. I have a block, crank, heads, and I think there may be a set of rods around for it. I'd have to look.

The #1 thing you need is heads. If you do indeed have 360 heads, that's a good thing. However, not all 360 heads are created equal. I'll go on a little photo expedition in a little while; it's easier to show you with pictures. I'm resisting the urge to write a freakin' novel here.

Just remember, Kerosene Boy, that 450HP is going to require you to use parts of a tachometer you've never seen previously. This post brought to you by the numerals 5, 6, and 7 with support from "x1000".

Whereabouts do you live?

Hehe kerosene boy. I like that. I've ridden in a few Cummins rigs that turn 5k. It sounds like they're about to come apart... haha I'm definitely not used to hearing high(er) rpm. The kind of power I'm used to is launching in 4wd, at dangerous boost numbers, and locking the converter off the line while trying to pull yourself out of the seat. Mind you, this is after you get the big snail to lite. Lol! I guess I was under the assumption that 450 horse was no chore, as that's easy pickins for a diesel engine. I obviously have much to learn.

 

[68R/T]

Not sure where you guys live.

Doc & Stretchy are in the south east leg of the UP of Michy-gan, about 550 miles from you. And I'm a little over half the way between, about 50 miles west of Milwaukee.

For this weekend my kids are visiting relatives not far from you in Coal City IN.