I kinda want this

ok doc...dont take this as being an ass or anything but it REALLY got me wondering and the more i thought on it the worse it got

pinto runabout(ultra short trunk not full glass)
ferarri f40
alfa gtv6/alfetta
76-79 toyota celica "fastback"
btw audi refers to the urq as a sport coupe
saab sonet
bubble butt porsches
and what about the "fastback mgs and sprints and such......most of these older oditys have a rear peice of glass that opens
viper gts coupe.........could you seriously call that a hatchback?

you see where im going with this..most ofthese cars you would never consider calling a "hatch back"

my take has always been the "angle" ..as the average "hatchback" is somewhere between 45-75deg slant where a "fastback" has always been 40deg and down with very few exceptions
 
My definition is that of the industry standard. If it's a fast-angle roof and the glass goes up, it's a hatchback. Period. If it doesn't, it's a fastback... it doesn't matter what the manufacturer calls it; these are automotive-industry standardized terms.

BTW, the F40 doesn't fit either definition since its trunklid is in the front, as it is with nearly any rear- or mid-engined car. Besides, the F40 has a tunneled rear window so that point is completely moot as it would be for a Fiero, Fiat X1/9, or Porsche 914. Oh, sure, the F40's got a louvered backglass engine cover, but that's not the rear window to the passenger compartment.

The Pinto was available in both configurations; if the glass goes up it's a hatchback, if it doesn't it's a fastback.

I don't understand why this simple concept is either a point of contention or a source of argument. I don't make the industry standards, I just happen to know them.
 
im not contesting it im just baffled by how the industry standard got to where it is..when initialy hatchbacks were in no way "sport" type cars let alone "gt"...you know exactly what i mean doc..alot of those cars i listed predate the term "hatch back"..yet now the "industry" has re-labled them as hatchbacks....

i dare someone to walk up to a gts coupe owner and say "nice hatchback"
 
Dr.Jass said:
Audi uses the term "Avant" and the Brits got it right by calling it something cool: a shooting brake.
Click to expand...
Actually I have always heard the Britts call Station Wagons "Saloons" :D With the power bits under the bonnet and lots of hauling room in the boot. :D <needs to stop watching so much Top Gear:shifty: >
 
The Brits call them "saloons" because they don't know the correct pronunciation of "salon"

A salon, or as they're known today as a sedan, is any car with a front & back seat and a solid "B" pillar. Originally the 2 doors were referred to as a coach and the 4 doors were a sedan.

A coupe was a short roofed 2 door with a front seat only.

A fastback is any car that the roofline is a continous flow to the rear of the trunklid, or "boot".

A hatchback is any car that the rear window and trunklid are one piece and can be opened.

Convertibles originally fell into 3 different catagories;
Landau - a folding top with no side windows,
Roadster - 2 seater with folding top and side curtains
Cabriolet - folding top with side windows that could roll up & down.

A sedan is a 4 door with solid "B" pillars and a full roofline. Todays definition has it as any car with a "B" pillar.

Lastly, the hardtop is any car lacking a "B" pillar. 2 doors or more.

There, I have spoken. Now quit your childish bickering. :naughty:

...and, for what it's worth..
I like MY station wagon. :toot:
 
Last edited:
We're not bickering... we're discussing! :dance:

My understanding is that a saloon is a 4-door with a proper trunk, not a wagon.

Does anyone even make a hardtop anymore? I have a hardtop with a B-pillar... Chrysler body style 22: two-door pillared hardtop. F and M coupes were listed as such; to Chrysler a hardtop meant frameless window glass back in those days. :D
 
None of it really makes a lot of sense. It is the auto industry, after all. :)
For another take on things:
Volvo 240 series cars were labelled as a 242 for a two door coupe which had a fixed B pillar, albeit a tiny one, a 244 four a four door sedan, and a 245 for the five door sedan, which they also referred to as a wagon or a saloon with a rear liftgate.
It's important to remember that as Doc says, these were industry standards, and that variances occured all the time, depending on the manufacturer and which market they were aiming at.
How about a Beetle, with a front luggage compartment, does one call it a hood or a trunk? The rear roof is definately sloped on one plane, but only the engine cover opens. It ain't no fastback - the word fast never applied to any production Beetle. :) They did label it as a sedan to differentiate it from their custom-built cabriolet, which most people now refer to as a convertible. Convertible originally defined something with a removable roof.
The whole mess can be as confusing as Hell.
Munufacturers now play the name game in hopes of capturing some long lost magic associated with a name from the past. A VW Phaeton? I'm sure the car has side windows, and the roof is as fixed as it can be. It does, however, have four doors which is only one of the requirments for the name Phaeton.
 
By definition, this is a fastback;
kester_39_ford.jpg

...because the roofline curves down to include the trunklid in a smooth flow. The same as a VW beetle. regardless of which end the engine is.
 
Dr.Jass said:
Does anyone even make a hardtop anymore? I have a hardtop with a B-pillar... Chrysler body style 22: two-door pillared hardtop. F and M coupes were listed as such; to Chrysler a hardtop meant frameless window glass back in those days. :D
Click to expand...

Technically, it is a hardtop, only because it's not a softtop. :bwuhaha:
They can call it anything they want, but by true definition it's still a sedan because it has a "B" pillar.:shifty:
 
OK, so how about 1971-'74 B-body two-doors? 2-door "sedans" (WL21, for example) have fixed quarter glass, two door "hardtops" (WH23) have roll-down quarter windows... but neither variation has a B pillar. :doh:



I know, I know... I'm just messing around. :D
 
i have to agree with sedan being "post" cars regardless of doors

68 see that i couldnt count as a fastback its to square backed like a wagon lol

fastback brings up images of a sleek roof line
 
I agree with the post/no-post thing as being the defining factor. I was just pointing out that even Mopar's invented some exceptions over the years.

I also disagree that the pic 68R/T posted is of a fastback. That's what was called a "business coupe" back in the day, and though it's got a defining characteristic of a fastback (the smooth transition from roof to tail edge of the trunklid), it does not have a "fast" roof line.
 
yet a 79 toyota celica "fastback" now qualifys as a "hatchback"...and they were marketed as a fastback even had fastback emblems
 
It was always qualified as a hatchback, regardless of what Toyota called it. It's no different than Chevrolet calling the 3rd-gen Camaro a "Sports Coupe" even though it's technically a 3-door hatchback.
 
Dr.Jass said:
I also disagree that the pic 68R/T posted is of a fastback. That's what was called a "business coupe" back in the day, and though it's got a defining characteristic of a fastback (the smooth transition from roof to tail edge of the trunklid), it does not have a "fast" roof line.
Click to expand...

That's far from being a business coupe.

Definition of a business coupe by Wikipedia;

Business coupéA coupé with no rear seat or a removable rear seat intended for traveling salespeople and other vendors who would be carrying their wares with them.
So, I suppose any 2 door with the rear seat removed could be a "business coupe." The pic that I posted would probaly be better described as an "opera coupe"

This is what I've always considered a business coupe;


Chrysler_Business_Coupe_1948_Rick_Feibusch-2008.jpg

Definition of a fastback by Wikipedia;


"A fastback is a car body style whose roofline slopes continuously down at the back. The word can also designate the car itself.[1][2] The style is seen on two-door coupés as well as four-door sedans."

Art Deco fastback: 1935 Stout Scarab



Finned fastback: 1936–1950 Tatra T87



Low-drag fastback: 1949 Saab 92




Some pretty ugly stuff there. :doh:
 
A GTS is only a coupe, it's not a fastback. Even though it resembles a fastback the roofline does not slope. The rear window does. :hmmm:
 
but most of the 50s and 60s stuff its designed after have that same styling of rear glass.....and doesnt that glass "open" making it a ...gulp...hatch back?...same logic makes all corvetes from the 70's on all "hatchbacks"
 
Many cars, including many of the Corvettes fall into more than one classification. Many Corvettes are sports coupes AND hatchbacks. :huh:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

SiteLock

SiteLock
Back
Top