How hot is too hot?

dustergal

I have serious issues, so I'm
Since we've put the 360 in the Duster it usually runs about 170 to 180 degrees on the highway at pretty much any speed, and the same when driving around town. But if I sit in traffic for just a few minutes the temp will jump up to 205, and I'm afraid it may keep climbing, especially when it starts getting really hot outside in the summer. Once I take off again, the temp will drop back to down to 185 or so. I know 205 isn't "that" bad but it did puke all over the driveway yesterday after running that hot.

We're running a small block A/C radiator from an A-body. The fan is a 7 blade off a 440 with a shroud and the fan sits about 1 3/4 from the radiator. The problem seems to be an airflow issue (says my husband).

We're wondering if an electric pusher fan would help or are we just covering up another problem? Thanks for any advice.
 
Perhaps the fan is to close, the fan blades should be somewhat visable when looking straight down the shroud opening. Not the whole blade mind you, about 1/8"-1/4" showing should be good.

If the fan is to deep inside the shround it will not be able to move air efficiently.
 
xlr8r said:
Buy an aluminium rad and be done with it. :)

Yeah, we've been thinking that too but wanted to explore other options first. Heck, she's already tons of other expensive upgrades so why not. :D

Thanks for the input. I'll show this post to my hubby.
 
I bought one for super cheap up here. Worked like a charm, and I was battling the heat. New clutch fan, new shroud, different rad, I figured what the hell, bought it, never looked back. Stayed at 190 allll the time! [smilie=e:
 
Be sure that the clutch isnt dry first but those are a trade off as far as low speed operation anyway. A pusher fan sits in front of the radiator and restricts airflow as an obstruction. A pull type electric on a thermostat should do the best in traffic. I believe shorter water pumps are available if clearence is an issue. A non clutch type might even do the trick. [smilie=e:
 
Like beep said, if you get the fan and shroud right you should be good to go. I had the same problem with mine, got a shroud and backed the fan away from the rad. and it will idle all day long in the heat.
 
There is a product out there known as "water wetter." It helps keep the water temp about 20 deg. cooler. I used it in my race car and it made a big difference.
 
Yep.."Watter Wetter" is made by Redline products and does a great job.

Also make sure that if your car came with a deflector installed behind the bumper (sometimes called a stone shield) it is there. It made a big difference on my 69 RR.

The shroud and fan correctly installed along with watter wetter should do the trick.
 
there's also an additive made by Royal Purple as well, called purple ice.

Are you running a straight coolent mixture? Or do have a 50/50 mix with water and coolent.

Personaly, i'd go with an electric fan (or two, depending on how much cooling you need, depending on horsepower, and outside tempiture), aluminum radiator, double row. Eliminate the fan clutch assembly all together, free up some horsepower, get better fuel milage (if your into that kinda thing) and could help even more with cooling, depending on your CFM flow.

But thats just me, not sure whats in your budget either. Otherwise, the aluminum radiator and checking the fan placement is a good idea as well. Good luck, stay cool....i hope. lol
 
Since Water Wetter and Purple Ice are both essentially glorified soap, try a few drops (and I do mean drops) of dishwashing detergent before you pay the big bucks. Water Wetter is about $8... last I checked, a small bottle of Palmolive was about 89¢. It's a racer's trick from decades ago, from before either of the named products existed.

All three do the exact same thing: lower the surface tension of water so that it can better fill the microscopic valleys and pits of the inside of the radiator and engine (or pots and pans). That also happens to be the only purpose for soap. In a car it helps cool, in the sink it gets pans clean, and the Dial you use in the shower does the same thing to get you cleaner than water alone. Being so diluted, and under pressure, no, it will not get suds. Afraid of suds? Use liquid Tide instead.

And that's all for today's physics lesson. :D

Remember: if the car's summer-only, straight water cools better than water with "coolant". Best? Distilled water that's been boiled first, with a few drops of one of the aforementioned soaps.

As far as the fan & clutch, I was always told that when looking straight down, the fan blades should be half-showing in the shroud... i.e., centered. Otherwise, you get a turbulence condition known as "cavitation". Basically, the air gets pumped back on itself rather than through the rad and fan. Flow Kooler water pumps' "secret" is a disc on their impellers to prevent cavitation inside the engine... it works well, but I know two people who've had to replace a timing cover because the riveted disc came free. [smilie=e:

Once the car is warmed up in the driveway, say around 195°, shut it off and see if you can move the fan. If you can, change out the clutch, and while you're at it, get one with a long/shorter shaft to get the fan centered front-to-rear. Most parts stores have several shaft lengths, but you'll probably just have to go through the boxes.

When it comes to engine damage, it depends on the engine itself, but usually if you don't top 250°, you won't hurt it. The boiling over at such low temperature tells me you need more cap pressure, too--you should be running at least a 14lb, if not a 16lb. The higher the pressure, the higher the boiling point of the liquid.

Doing any or all of the above will almost certainly get you cool without the expense of a new radiator... but if you need one, the narrower-option (22") late-'70s truck rads drop in between the rails and are available with up to four rows. They're a little taller, but there are no clearance problems. You will need to drill a couple new mounting holes. If it's not enough, and you can clear it, get the 28" unit, which is still under $200 with a lifetime warranty. They look stock and cost about half of an aluminum unit... the 22" unit is [i]really[/i] the hot ticket for pre-'67 A-cars, where they fit well, and there's little other option.
 
Since Water Wetter and Purple Ice are both essentially glorified soap, try a few drops (and I do mean drops) of dishwashing detergent before you pay the big bucks. Water Wetter is about $8... last I checked, a small bottle of Palmolive was about 89¢. It's a racer's trick from decades ago, from before either of the named products existed.

Wow..learn something new every day! Thanks Jass...gonna do that this weekend and see what happens!

I am in Miami and the straight water advice was great. Egoober himself helped me with that one (really nice guy) and, in my particular case, installing the radiator stone shield, which also happens to be a great help in directing the flow of air into the rad on a 69 RR, made a world of difference.

It should be noted that electric fans in front of the radiator will actually hinder the cooling ability of the radiator at speed. Above 40MPH, fans aren't doing much of anything. So keep that in mind before you clog up the front with all that fan stuff.

I would do all the other stuff before installing a fan in the front, unless you spend a lot of time at idle, like if you only cruise or are in NYC traffic all day long...
 
like if you only cruise or are in NYC traffic all day long...

OH my Gawd....If I had to drive the Duster through NYC even one time I would be dead of a heart attack . :D

We've got the next four days off so we'll be working on it. Looks to be a beautiful day. [smilie=e:
 
mannye said:
...electric fans in front of the radiator will actually hinder the cooling ability of the radiator at speed. Above 40MPH, fans aren't doing much of anything.
Right you are, Manny. It's actually true of rear-mount fans, too... they still obstruct airflow since they block fins.

A clutch fan will actually disengage and just freewheel (no drag) at sustained speed as low as 35MPH, where the natural airflow through the radiator is enough to cool the engine on its own... not turning the fan with the engine saves HP, and in these days of gas priced north of $2/gallon, saves "the precious juice". They're far better than any fixed fan, flex or otherwise, and certainly the hot (sorry) ticket for street running.

Another couple of thing that came to mind after my post, if you've got a used radiator:
  • > Have it boiled out at a radiator shop. Any corrosion or particulate build-up (hard water, etc) is lowering its cooling capacity.

    > Take a blow gun and blast through the fins from the engine side of the radiator... you wouldn't believe the crap that can accumulate in those fins over time. Blow from the engine side, forcing the detritus back out the way it came in, then get yourself a flat-blade screwdriver or $6 fin comb and make sure the fins are straight. Bent fins obstruct airflow.
You can also make your own "Flow Cooler" water pump by shaping a metal disc the diameter of your water-pump impeller, and riveting it on (that's how they do it). Another cheap upgrade is to get the HD or "police" water pump, which actually uses less blades on the impeller (I think it's 6 instead of 8). Sounds bizarre, but that's how it goes... and it worked for the cops throughout the '80s. Trust me. :D
 
Just a few quick tips to add to Docs last post. Draino works well as a flushing agent-its 99% lye soap so dont get it in the water pump but it will clean out plugged tubes. After you have straightened out the fins and blown out the core good, paint it with some gloss black spray paint- it helps transfer heat better, something about black that seems to help. [smilie=e:
 

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