And then there were 2...

[71ChargerRT]

So as many of you know I now have a pair of '69 Valiants.

The first one I bought is going to be a street car, my low compression 1972 440 is going in there, once I get it running correctly I'm going to do a cam swap and a few other odds and ends to get it a little peppier. I am pulling the too wide D44 and swapping in a 59-1/2 8.8 Ford rear with offset shackles and hangers so I can run a 15X7 wheel with a 245/60-15 on the rear and a 215/65-15 up front. I've been collecting parts and I have almost everything I need to get it together, goes back into the garage this weekend.

Valiant 2, or the Nova as Doc nicknamed it, is actually a little bit nicer of a car even though it spent close to 25 years in a junkyard. The floors are shot, and there is a small spot of rust behind the drivers rear tire, rusted from the inside out. I am thinking about mini tubs and grafting in Duster or 2nd gen Barracuda wheel openings so I can get a bigger tire under there. I want to cage this one and make it a ridiculously quick street/strip car with a turbo'd low deck stroker.

 

[69.5CUDA]

if you want/need the rear openings i have a STACK of quarter panel cutoffs with the entire wheelhouse still attached....ive always thought that they shoulda done full opens...as for the front....slim chance on front fenders..tho...i might have a pair of bent ones burried behind the shop.....and ive got the mostly correct fit b body 8 3/4 houseings......even a spare "skinny" 1958 ford rear

 

[71ChargerRT]

I want to go with fiberglass fenders, hood and bumpers. I'd like to do doors and decklid too, but I do believe they are rare as hens teeth. I have a housing and axles, just need to send the out to get shortened and resplined so I'm good there.

I'd like to see pics of what you have, and figure out shipping. Interested for sure.

 

[69.5CUDA]

ill grab a pic of the pile tommaro..

as for glass..goooooood luck unless dart stuff is the same or close enuf to make it look right

 

[Dr.Jass]

I've considered fiberglass parts for my Valiant as well, although I don't think I could abide body-colored bumpers. VFN, AAR and Unlimited all make parts for the Valiant. Fiberglass doors are still available, but they don't have the vent-window frame. I'm sure they could be added with some modifications. True of any body panels, most of the stuff ships truck freight where size counts more than the light weight, so the shipping is going to be killer on some of that stuff. The "race weight" stuff is lighter, but if you want it straight you're going to have a lot of bodywork into it. To my knowledge AAR makes the straightest parts, also the highest quality, but the prices do reflect that... as do the weights of the parts.

Everything forward of the windshield is the same as '70-'72 Duster, and other than jack slots the front bumper is the same '67-'72. Unlimited sells hoods with Nova scoops in multiple heights, which I find quite appropriate in this situation. One of them lists a rear bumper, but they list it as '67-'72 so I'd want to see a picture of that--the rear bumper changed in '71 on the coupe, but stayed basically the same on the sedan. Again, the difference is the late-'71/'72 jack slots.

VFN is "just down the road" from me, in Ill-Annoy, AAR is in Florida, and Unlimited is in Cali. I'm guessing there won't be a sizable difference in shipping between the three for you, being in Tejas. Crating fees and "handling" could be significant, though.

 

[restoman]

Any 'glass fender you get will require some work if you plan on adding silly things like headlamps, bezels or grills. Like Doc said, if you want 'em straight with good gaps all around, prepare to get itchy...
I installed a set on a '74 Dart we did a few years ago, and to get them straight and fitting as good as steel fenders took about a day apiece... that's a solid 8-10 hours of grinder, long board and filling work, plus additional time for grill and headlamp fitting. They did look fantastic, though...

 

[Dr.Jass]

The AAR fenders come with embedded mounting hardware, which they're very happy to explain is installed and located with great effort. They also claim their panels require only sanding, sealing, and paint--"no extra bodywork required" (it's in the description). I know Rick Ehrenberg used their fenders on the Green Brick and described them as head and shoulders above anything else he'd used or seen previously. Of course, that quality comes with a weight penalty in addition to their greater cost: AAR gets $395, as opposed to $189 from Unlimited. VFN doesn't even make one. I believe the AAR fenders have the marker lamp hole cut too, which is not the case on the Unlimited which is listed '70-'76. On a dedicated race car, straightness might not be of primary or even any concern as opposed to weight. Neither manufacturer seems to mention weight, which I would think is paramount to someone looking at 'glass body parts.

Shipping cost for one AAR fender to my commercial work address is $164, meaning each AAR fender would cost me $559. By comparison, an AMD steel fender is $400, but the shipping's only $99. Steel looks like the better option for me. However, if you're hell-bent on fiberglass' weight savings, I'd suggest keeping an eye on Craigslist and racingjunk for used fenders within reasonable driving distance. Chances are they're going to need a ton of work if you want them straight, though.

One thing to remember in considering steel or AAR fenders: The '69 Valiant fenders are not exactly the same as the '70-'72 Valant/Scamp/Duster parts. There are minor differences in the grille/headlamp bezel mounting provisions, but those are easily overcome with small fabbed brackets. The exterior appearance is identical, though.

Also, though I didn't mention it previously, if you're gonna cut out your rear wheel arches, do it nicely. I'll buy them from you. Mine are workable but they're punky at the top edge. I'd just as soon patch in something that's supposed to be there as opposed to going all Gas Monkey on them.

 

[69.5CUDA]

2 blue 69 fb
2 white 67 cp
2 gold 67 fb
2 red 68 fb

one of the gold ones is actualy a factory reskin that i was told and belive was redone around 1969..so i dont remember how nice the wheel house is on it,...but all the rest have solid wheel houses and could be cut anywhere you like....the white set are still on a car i need to cut up but its been way to hot to stand in the sun and do it..the "bronze" set i refuse to sell as they are pure MUD not from rust but mangling

 

[restoman]

Also, though I didn't mention it previously, if you're gonna cut out your rear wheel arches, do it nicely. I'll buy them from you. Mine are workable but they're punky at the top edge. I'd just as soon patch in something that's supposed to be there as opposed to going all Gas Monkey on them.

Look at that ^^^^. Now, you're anticipating up-coming bodywork instead of talking yourself out of it.
I'd like to think I'm partially to blame for that.

 

[Dr.Jass]

Now, you're anticipating up-coming bodywork instead of talking yourself out of it.

I think "expecting" would be a better word here. I don't relish the idea, but yes, it'll need to be done and I'll likely be the one to do it. However, that frame rail? Ugh. That's a nightmare I'd rather not face, but bolstered by false bravado from the roof swap I'm going to attempt it.

Blame you? No. Credit you? Absolutely!

 

[69.5CUDA]

I think "expecting" would be a better word here. I don't relish the idea, but yes, it'll need to be done and I'll likely be the one to do it. However, that frame rail? Ugh. That's a nightmare I'd rather not face, but bolstered by false bravado from the roof swap I'm going to attempt it.

Blame you? No. Credit you? Absolutely!

so long as you jig her up good n level and tripple check your alignments it shouldnt be neerly as bad as one would think..theres just sooooooo many attachment points its going to make it alot harder to get wrong so long as the car remains level and true

 

[restoman]

so long as you jig her up good n level and tripple check your alignments it shouldnt be neerly as bad as one would think..theres just sooooooo many attachment points its going to make it alot harder to get wrong so long as the car remains level and true

What he said.
It's really no different than changing welded-on body panels, if you can tackle them - and you have - you can tackle a frame rail.
You'll be soooooo glad you bought a good spot weld drill kit.

 

[TheIronSausage]

These guys are making a hell of a car. The jig he's fabbed up is awesome.. They haven't finished the car yet, but if you can stand British humour (with an added "u") This is a great resource, as well as entertaining.

[video=youtube;7hCPODjJO7s]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hCPODjJO7s[/video]

 

[71ChargerRT]

Color and year don't matter to me 69, price and shipping are what count. I only need about 6" of metal from the edge of the wheel opening all the way around and the wheel tub. I hate to cut up good 1/4's, but that's all I need.


I already a blue pantina fiberglass front bumper, paid $30 for one at Carlisle. Found some nice lightweight aluminum brackets for $55 so that's handled.

 

[71ChargerRT]

If you only need the top section of the wheel wells you're in good shape Doc, mine is only rusted behind the drivers wheel from something inside the trunk extension. Don't worry, I'm going to cut it neatly, I'm not trying to make an extra extra work for meself.

 

[71ChargerRT]

I was thinking, I might just lighten the doors since no fiberglass post doors are available.

 

[Stretch]

I think "expecting" would be a better word here. I don't relish the idea, but yes, it'll need to be done and I'll likely be the one to do it. However, that frame rail? Ugh. That's a nightmare I'd rather not face, but bolstered by false bravado from the roof swap I'm going to attempt it.

Blame you? No. Credit you? Absolutely!

We will tackle that rail in my garage

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk

 

[Dr.Jass]

These guys are making a hell of a car. The jig he's fabbed up is awesome.. They haven't finished the car yet, but if you can stand British humour (with an added "u") This is a great resource, as well as entertaining.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hCPODjJO7s

Actually, I found the humor to be very American. Most of the pop-culture references were from the US, especially the opening/closing sequences. Those are taken straight from the short-lived-but-hysterical "Police Squad!" TV show (the basis for the Naked Gun franchise), right down to "Rex Harrison as Abraham Lincoln", the narrator announcing a different show title than what appears on-screen, and the simulated freeze-frames during the closing credits. Even the delivery was pretty American--though I really loved the "aluminum" slam. Regardless, watching was great fun.

And that's the problem. If you have the least bit of love for fabrication in you, you'll binge-watch that shit--like I did last night. I laughed. I wept. I watched all 13 episodes and didn't accomplish a lot of things I intended to finish. It was like a train wreck, played in reverse slow motion. "I'll stop after this episode" is replaced by "I've got another half hour to kill" and the before you realize it, your whole night's shot. But holy shit, what they're doing and how they're doing it nothing short of amazing.

Damn you, BronzeBologna. Damn you to hell.

 

[Dr.Jass]

I was thinking, I might just lighten the doors since no fiberglass post doors are available.

You could figure out a way to install the posts in the 'glass doors. Hell, race cars don't need side glass anyhow. Realistically, you could probably remove a lot of the structure from behind the door panel. Throw in some Lexan windows and a Super Stock A-body seatbelt-style window "regulator" and I would think you could probably pull 20lbs out of each door. On a race car you could Swiss-cheese the hell out of anywhere not involving strength for the door latch or hinges, really. Too bad they don't have full door panels.

I really only need the top part of the arch, but I'd like to have from approximately the lower body line to an inch or two over it. You'll have to go at least that high to fully utilize a wider opening, methinks. However, I think you'd be way ahead of the game using Duster or Demon wheel openings, as opposed to Barracuda bits. The wheel arch from the Barracuda is totally different, as is the overall curvature of the quarter panel, which is much more slab-sided on the standard A-cars. Hell, even the wheelwells we've got on these cars are a damn sight better for tires than the Dart's nearly-skirted, semi-formal disaster area.

Once again, fair warning: Though the 8.8 is an upgrade from that not-really-a-Dana-44 axle you had, you need to replace everything OE Ford inside it. The gears are obvious, but the diff, bearings, and axle shafts in particular are very failure-prone (75% of the parts stores I worked in the last decade actually stocked them). The Dorman replacement axles are cheap, and unlike OE they seem to be hardened in the bearing and spline areas. Lose the crush sleeve entirely; eliminator kits are easy to find. Use nothing but Timken bearings throughout. It still won't be nearly as strong as an 8.75" (or fit as well as one from a '65-'67 B-body) but at least it won't pop like a zit the first time you dump the clutch, or chew through the axle shafts faster than a wolf on a chicken bone. For whatever reason, the Mustang 8.8s seemed to hold up alright, but the pickup/Explorer units were garbage.

That's not intended to be offensive or trying to talk you out of using it, it's just the voice of a guy that's sold probably $10K worth of parts at wholesale cost for 'em, the vast majority being Exploder axles. I know you're hell-bent on rear discs the same way I'm obsessed with 340s, meaning there's absolutely no sound reasoning behind either other than that's what we want, so from that standpoint the 8.8" makes a lot of sense. They're daily-driver quality from a durability standpoint (a huge improvement over something like a Wilwood arrangement) and the parts are inexpensive, plentiful and usually in stock. Big pluses, for sure, and I can't fault that reasoning. It's just that everything between them really does need to be replaced. Luckily, most of those parts don't cost all that much either. :dance:

 

[69.5CUDA]

side note for anyone intrested that i was told in detail about..98? and newwer ford mustang disc brakes are neerly a direct bolt on /slipover onto mopar with needing nothing more than the caliper mount....from what i was even told the mustang rear disc oe backing plate for the e-brake even fits just needs re-drilled