b-body-bob
Well-known member
I didn't think a vendor would ship something and forget to send the tracking number until later, but it happened. The parts showed up in yesterday's mail, the label was created on Monday.
My 71 Duster work in progress
- Thread starter b-body-bob
- Start date
I didn't think a vendor would ship something and forget to send the tracking number until later, but it happened. The parts showed up in yesterday's mail, the label was created on Monday.
b-body-bob
Well-known member
I got the front end assembled but had a problem with the brake hose so I stopped for the day. It won't fit through the hole on the frame bracket, so I guess it's dremel time.
b-body-bob
Well-known member
Yeah the hose itself is round in this case so it might just be the flat in the bracket that's stopping it, or the hole needs enlarged.
The hose has a hex above and below the attached stop thing, so I think it is like the rear hose and meant for that to engage with the frame bracket. On the back bracket it has a dozen or so notches in it to catch the corners of the hex on the hose.
The hose has a hex above and below the attached stop thing, so I think it is like the rear hose and meant for that to engage with the frame bracket. On the back bracket it has a dozen or so notches in it to catch the corners of the hex on the hose.
b-body-bob
Well-known member
LMAO here.
I turned to Dr Diff's page to see if there was any mention of changes needed to get those hoses to work, and noticed that the stupid brakes require 15" wheels. I would've sworn I checked that they would work with 14's but apparently no I didn't.
Updated: yes I did and I ordered the right ones. Don't know why they're rubbing but they are. Maybe I have to tighten a few lugs to get them positioned just right. Maybe I have the wrong wheels because the write up says "This is the largest OEM-style brake package that fits 14" disc brake spec wheels."
I turned to Dr Diff's page to see if there was any mention of changes needed to get those hoses to work, and noticed that the stupid brakes require 15" wheels. I would've sworn I checked that they would work with 14's but apparently no I didn't.
Updated: yes I did and I ordered the right ones. Don't know why they're rubbing but they are. Maybe I have to tighten a few lugs to get them positioned just right. Maybe I have the wrong wheels because the write up says "This is the largest OEM-style brake package that fits 14" disc brake spec wheels."
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Dr.Jass
Pastor of Muppets
All the hoses I show available for that application have the alignment flat in them. Centric's image is the most-obvious representation:
The "disc brake spec wheel" makes sense, though it seems foolish that once discs became available that wouldn't have become the go-to wheel for all 14" applications. I didn't check the OE parts catalogs, but since the disc wheel would have no issue on a drum, I can't see a reason to make two different ones.
I have 14" small-bolt slots on the Valiant and they clear just fine. I'm not sure who made them, though. I recently bought a set of chrome reverse small-bolt wheels; it'll be interesting to check the fit once I've got the car out of storage.
The "disc brake spec wheel" makes sense, though it seems foolish that once discs became available that wouldn't have become the go-to wheel for all 14" applications. I didn't check the OE parts catalogs, but since the disc wheel would have no issue on a drum, I can't see a reason to make two different ones.
I have 14" small-bolt slots on the Valiant and they clear just fine. I'm not sure who made them, though. I recently bought a set of chrome reverse small-bolt wheels; it'll be interesting to check the fit once I've got the car out of storage.
b-body-bob
Well-known member
Don't forget that I've converted to a single piston big ball joint setup. IIRC the rotors were labeled to fit a Volare/Aspen. So I can't use the factory type hose any more. These have what I think are called a banjo bolt and a couple of copper sealing washers involved in connecting the hose to the caliper.
I'll know more about the wheels here in an hour or so.
I'll know more about the wheels here in an hour or so.
69.5CUDA
Blah Blah Blah
the ONLY time ive ever come across wierd brake clearance fitment with wheels is useualy aluminum wheels due to the extra meat on the wheel
however i have come across atleast 1 steel wheel that wouldnt clear but i always assumed it was bent, but in more recent years ive come across the problem again, this time on a crown vic, 2 seemingly identical steel wheels..1 fits 1 doesnt
2 things come to mind, how tight of a rub is it and is it in a spot that could get ground down safely?
ive got the BBP front on my 69 runnin 14inch cragger ss.....so unless they did something wonky as hell i cant see why any ole 14 wouldnt fit
however i have come across atleast 1 steel wheel that wouldnt clear but i always assumed it was bent, but in more recent years ive come across the problem again, this time on a crown vic, 2 seemingly identical steel wheels..1 fits 1 doesnt
2 things come to mind, how tight of a rub is it and is it in a spot that could get ground down safely?
ive got the BBP front on my 69 runnin 14inch cragger ss.....so unless they did something wonky as hell i cant see why any ole 14 wouldnt fit
Dr.Jass
Pastor of Muppets
That shouldn't be an issue. Only the '76-'79 B-bodies, to my knowledge, ever had the 11.75" rotors that absolutely require 15" or larger wheels. There were two different sets of caliper brackets (technically four, two pin and two slider) depending on rotor size. The Aspolare brakes are virtually identical to the '73-up A-body stuff. Both body styles used 10.73" rotors and neither ever required 15" wheels. What's strange is that, if memory serves, the wheels were already on the car with the K-H small-bolt brakes, which are a damned sight bigger than the single-piston stuff.
The single-piston A-body hoses, which should work with your calipers, still show at least one, maybe two orientation flats on them, as do the F-body (Aspolare) parts. Those alignment flats are there so the hose is routed away from any potential interference. On the Valiant, I went with AllStar braided lines, and even the universal adapter fittings for the braided had an alignment flat on them. The downside to the braided lines is more potential leak spots, but the upside is that I don't have to mess with the hard lines or calipers to change a hose; it's just a braided-steel -3AN double-female hose. It comes off in about a minute with a single 7/16" wrench. The replacement hoses are filthy cheap, and they don't split, bulge, or crack like rubber hoses do. Win-win-win.
69.5CUDA
Blah Blah Blah
like doc said on the braided, in fact if i have to touch a hyd line be it brake or clutch it gets swapped with braided i dont care what im working on...bonus points ive got a local shop that stocks the stuff in every imagineable length... the 4x4 ford van i did needed 30+inch fronts and a 28inch rear..it was less than 50$ for the lines and fittings
b-body-bob
Well-known member
I confirmed the wheel fits, it's tight but OK.
The hoses I have are definitely round at the top end, then has two flats under the groove. So to use them I either need to file a flat spot on the hose end or hog out the frame bracket so the hose will fit through it. I'm reluctant to mess with the frame bracket even though that would be easier than filing that brass fitting to fit.
Either way, I don't see how it could turn once it's installed, and it has wrench flats on it to hold the hose while the hard line is tightened.
Or I need to figure out something different on the hoses. At least I'm not in a hurry.
Jass, you're saying that the hose you used eliminates the banjo bolt and goes directly to the caliper?
There used to be a hydraulic supply place here but I think it's long gone.
The hoses I have are definitely round at the top end, then has two flats under the groove. So to use them I either need to file a flat spot on the hose end or hog out the frame bracket so the hose will fit through it. I'm reluctant to mess with the frame bracket even though that would be easier than filing that brass fitting to fit.
Either way, I don't see how it could turn once it's installed, and it has wrench flats on it to hold the hose while the hard line is tightened.
Or I need to figure out something different on the hoses. At least I'm not in a hurry.
Jass, you're saying that the hose you used eliminates the banjo bolt and goes directly to the caliper?
There used to be a hydraulic supply place here but I think it's long gone.
Dr.Jass
Pastor of Muppets
I'd file the hose end to fit through the frame bracket, personally. Hoses are bolt-ons, frame brackets are not so easily replaced. It's not so much about the hose turning in use as it is being sure it's correctly oriented during installation. As you said, once it's connected and tight it's really not going anywhere, but having that end fixed does mitigate stresses on the brake line.
The lines I used eliminate neither that end nor the banjo bolt., they just sort of make them a "one and done" proposition, never to be futzed with again. "Permanent" fittings get installed on both the frame bracket and the caliper that adapt both to either a -3 or -4 male (your call). The new hose attaches to those. In the event of a failure, neither the hard line nor the caliper fitting need to be disturbed. The hose simply unscrews from the adapter fittings and gets replaced. The hoses themselves are available with straight, 45, and 90-degree fittings and combinations thereof to best fit your particular need.
You can sort of get an idea of how it works here. If you blow up those pictures of the upper fittings for both the front and rear brake hoses, you'll see that they're in place, with the rear awaiting its hose and the front installed. AllStar makes adapters for virtually any factory fitting on the car. They're not particularly expensive, and never need to be replaced--only the hose itself needs to come off in the event of a failure. The adapters stay in place.
The lines I used eliminate neither that end nor the banjo bolt., they just sort of make them a "one and done" proposition, never to be futzed with again. "Permanent" fittings get installed on both the frame bracket and the caliper that adapt both to either a -3 or -4 male (your call). The new hose attaches to those. In the event of a failure, neither the hard line nor the caliper fitting need to be disturbed. The hose simply unscrews from the adapter fittings and gets replaced. The hoses themselves are available with straight, 45, and 90-degree fittings and combinations thereof to best fit your particular need.
You can sort of get an idea of how it works here. If you blow up those pictures of the upper fittings for both the front and rear brake hoses, you'll see that they're in place, with the rear awaiting its hose and the front installed. AllStar makes adapters for virtually any factory fitting on the car. They're not particularly expensive, and never need to be replaced--only the hose itself needs to come off in the event of a failure. The adapters stay in place.
b-body-bob
Well-known member
That's the same way I was thinking about it.
Dr.Jass
Pastor of Muppets
These are the banjo-bolt adapters, and these are the fittings that go in the frame brackets. The part number shown is for a pair. Obviously both examples are for -3AN, which is 3/16" inside diameter, but they do make them for -4 if you want the larger size... it didn't make much sense to me to increase the diameter just for the hoses, though.
They also offer a dizzying array of hoses to connect the two including black-coated stainless for the stealth look. I've always been impressed with their quality v. price, and the prices shown are actually higher than what you'll encounter in the marketplace. My walk-in prices are lower, which is sayin' something for a neighborhood independent parts store.
They also offer a dizzying array of hoses to connect the two including black-coated stainless for the stealth look. I've always been impressed with their quality v. price, and the prices shown are actually higher than what you'll encounter in the marketplace. My walk-in prices are lower, which is sayin' something for a neighborhood independent parts store.
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69.5CUDA
Blah Blah Blah
any reasonably good hyd shop will have the hoses..and likely the fittings at that same crazy cheepness...IF you still have one around
i love doing this...its actualy amazing the differance in both pedal feel and feedback, and im not talking about old vs new braided but say semi new as in a year or 2 old vs braided...the braided feels like you got more master and brake....its an incredible upgrade over OE rubber on EVERYTHING...the only reason ive not done the lines on my dirt bike with braided is cause they allready are too much im afraid of an improvment
i love doing this...its actualy amazing the differance in both pedal feel and feedback, and im not talking about old vs new braided but say semi new as in a year or 2 old vs braided...the braided feels like you got more master and brake....its an incredible upgrade over OE rubber on EVERYTHING...the only reason ive not done the lines on my dirt bike with braided is cause they allready are too much im afraid of an improvment
b-body-bob
Well-known member
Thanks for the info on the stainless and parts.
I figured out how to get the round end into the D shaped hole by starting it with the flat spot in the groove and then angling it in. I still have a problem though.
I looked at the lines that came off the car, and I've got 3 different types. These two are both round but have different width grooves.
The groove in the new hose is pretty much exactly the same width as the frame bracket, and since it's bigger than the hole below the groove, it won't go in far enough to get the clip on it. The groove is wide enough in the other one that the clip will work.
The other hose is D shaped and has the narrow groove too, but since the area below the groove fits into the D, it goes in far enough that I can get the clip on it. I suspect this one is OEM.
I looked at the braided hose parts and that end is round on them too, so I'm going to have the same problem.
I'm going to break out the dremel and a burr and make this thing happen. I can open up the hole enough for the round part to slip in without ruining the tab. You can barely even tell it's there.
I figured out how to get the round end into the D shaped hole by starting it with the flat spot in the groove and then angling it in. I still have a problem though.
I looked at the lines that came off the car, and I've got 3 different types. These two are both round but have different width grooves.
The groove in the new hose is pretty much exactly the same width as the frame bracket, and since it's bigger than the hole below the groove, it won't go in far enough to get the clip on it. The groove is wide enough in the other one that the clip will work.
The other hose is D shaped and has the narrow groove too, but since the area below the groove fits into the D, it goes in far enough that I can get the clip on it. I suspect this one is OEM.
I looked at the braided hose parts and that end is round on them too, so I'm going to have the same problem.
I'm going to break out the dremel and a burr and make this thing happen. I can open up the hole enough for the round part to slip in without ruining the tab. You can barely even tell it's there.
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b-body-bob
Well-known member
I blew the fluid out of one of those hoses and I could tell the difference even just doing that. I had to cut one off the caliper and it had barely a pin hole for fluid. Just one more reason why the car didn't have any brakes.
b-body-bob
Well-known member
I ended up having to grind on both the frame tab and the brake hose but they're on now. Next stop, master cylinder. I need to review all the confusing info before choosing one. Or just get one for a later model A-body or an F-body with manual disc brakes.