Whatever happened to header mufflers?

[b-body-bob]

Thinking about adapting the Schumachers on my Duster to the existing exhaust system has me thinking about header mufflers.

Back in the day, the first thing you did when you bought a $500 muscle car was to stick a set of headers and a couple of Thrush header mufflers on it. No pipes needed.

Whatever happened to that? Nowadays people are spending thousands on overpriced reproduction exhaust systems. It used to be a lot less complicated (and more fun).

 

[thrashingcows]

Wouldn't header muffler just exacerbate the clearance issues under the car?

 

[Dr.Jass]

I think we all got old and remembered how crappy glasspacks sound. In fact, I can remember when it first struck me how much I hated that arrangement. June 6th, 1988... I was 17.

Seriously, I bought my first car a couple of weeks before I turned 17. One of the first things I did was put Hedman Hedders on it, complete with bolt-on glasspacks and nothing else. I liked it well enough, I suppose, because it was loud and "racy" to my young mind. I couldn't hear myself think, of course, but all I thought about was cars and girls anyhow.

10 months later, that car was gone and I bought my '73 Challenger. Before I'd even bought the car I'd made arrangements for full dual exhaust to be installed. They let me bring my own mufflers since I worked at a parts store and wanted something different than their offerings. I chose Thrush Turbo 400s (GM forced Thrush to change the name since). It was dramatically quieter than the Trans Am--too quiet, my best friend thought. It sounded fantastic at full song, though--and got better with time--and one could really hear that ThermoQuad howlin' inside the car. I was officially over header glasspacks (and glasspacks in general) forever.

My pal must've come around a bit since my car was so much nicer for cruising. You could hear the radio and everything! He ended up having the same shop put essentially the same exhaust system on his 'Cuda, but went with fudg... I mean, glasspacks. It sounded OK until the packing was gone a few days later, then it was a blatty mess. Not only was it loud in the car, resonance made it even worse. By the time summer was over, he wished he'd gotten the Thrush mufflers.

 

[69.5CUDA]

i think he actualy means header mufflers not bolt on cherrybombs, as i do recall thrus making a header muffler..it was a little 10-12 inch muffler that just bolted to a header and that was the end of it, center in center out multi chamber design..but designed to be TINY, i belive it was introduced specificaly for street/strip cars and especialy for cars where tracks had a lowwer DB limit

personaly i HATE cherrybomb style glass packs...FOR THE MOST PART..i have found a caveat in the fact that my 71 caddy had 4 of them in the full exhaust and sounded AMAZING..so i duplicate it on my 58 ford and again its not loud and has a very clean sound that doesnt sound like cherrybombs..best guess is they are acting like dual resonators?...i have no understanding of the how/why it sounds good and works

on a side note of glasspacks tho...maybe just maybe.....
thrust used to make a "race pack" and it was kinda a muffler kinda a glasspack bolted straight up to the header and was a big black round barrel with flat ends....ran those on my 69 and LOVE em..loud, check, but not "cheep" sounding like a glasspack....do they still make it and call it something funky..i looked years ago and came up empty

 

[69.5CUDA]

a quick search and it looks like tehres some collector inserts? as well as short collector mufflers but nothing like what i remember of being a "real" muffler in a compact setp

 

[b-body-bob]

for cars where tracks had a lowwer DB limit

Think older.

Tracks weren't measuring dBs so much back then if at all.

There was a track here directly across the river from a hospital, that was shut down for noise about the same time I got my license and could've gone, so about 77.

You had to hang them or rumor had it the weight hanging off the end of the header could cause cracks.

I couldn't use them on the Duster anyway, because the Schumacher shorties kind of point at the ground, and once I start bending pipes to get horizontal, I might as well just make it longer and connect that to the existing system.

 

[b-body-bob]

Wouldn't header muffler just exacerbate the clearance issues under the car?

That's why torsion bars are adjustable.

 

[Dr.Jass]

That's why torsion bars are adjustable.

Locally, he's known as "Gasser-Stance-Bob".

 

[Dr.Jass]

Think older.

I remember those. They stopped painting them like that years ago, but it appears they're just plain gone now. Nobody had 'em around here when I had my first car. Bolt-up glasspacks were about it.

That style muffler makes a good resonator when used in conjunction with a regular muffler. I have a similar pair under the back of the '69 Valiant. Mine are AP part number 700196, rather than Thrush. They're resonators from '80s-'90s GM full-size wagons. I never started the car on mufflers only, but given the small size of the Summit turbos on it, I can only imagine it would be considerably louder without 'em. If a guy wanted to replicate the old Thrushes, they might be a good choice (they're 2½" in and out).

 

[b-body-bob]

Locally, he's known as "Gasser-Stance-Bob".

The first thing I did to the setup-like-a-racecar A12 was raise the TBs. IMO muscle cars look natural sitting up on the springs. The A12's sitting on a set of skates right now so it's raised up and it just looks wicked sighting down the curve of the body.

I raised the front end of the Duster up from where I started with it, to get the camber I needed.

 

[69.5CUDA]

Think older.

YES THOSE!!!!!! i had em on my cuda, and when i wrecked it they went on my ramcharger....ive still got em but they are in ROUGH shape....theyve been on a handfull of cars n trucks to be honest..i think they ar eunder the 74 right now...bout from "super shops" back in late 91..i still have the bloody recipt...and the stickers went on the back side glass of my fish, id KILL for a a few sets of those

even after all the abuse they still sound pretty good and still dont sound like a cherrybomb

i love a good raked muscle..ass up nose down or ass up nose up...its when the nose gets higher than the tail i cant stand it
my 69 ran around with the nose cranked out air shocks maxed out and i was happy..latter i dropped the nose enough to actualy give suspension but keep me above dragging those thrushes....initialy i could tink them on the road white raised reflectors changing lanes!

as far as cracking a header with them hanging off the back..i call bullshit, or..atleast off both a body headers and dodge truck headers(unsure if what i had was 2wd or 4wd as they will interchange on a 4wd)..my cuda saw ABUSE powerline trails catchin air off train tracks, offroading, etc..i was NOT nice..even got the car stuck teetering on just those packs a few times..they were tough as hell...put the RC under the same abuse and more, even added side short side outs to the ends of those packs..all hanging off the headers and to this day those side outs are still on those packs..and no header cracks have resulted..however the front seams of the packs have gotten very weak

 

[74DartSport]

I personally hate Flowbastards.

 

[b-body-bob]

I personally hate Flowbastards.

I've got a brand new set here that came on a car. The idiot who owned it had the exhaust welded solid, I needed off, so it got cut at a straight point where the pipe goes over the axle. I did that thinking I could stick a coupler in there to use them on another car. Then I never used them and they've been out of the way but taking up space ever since.

That's another good question, what fool got the idea to start welding exhaust pipes so you can't get them back off when you need to?

 

[Dr.Jass]

Once again referring to the exhaust on the '69, it's a blend of welded and clamped. Clamp joints are important because they're a flex point more than they're important for diassembly. I used band clamps after the welded X/extension pipe assembly, standard clamps at the back of the mufflers and front of resonators, and the tips are welded to the resonators.

One of the reasons I used the band clamps so far forward was ability to replace the mufflers if desired. I didn't know how those cheap Summit turbos would sound, so I left a lot of room for something larger. Turns out I like them just fine so far with the aforementioned resonators. It's a bit louder than I'd originally hoped, but it's not loud loud and it's got some authority to it.

 

[69.5CUDA]

im sure this is a better discusion for another day..but...i was under the impression that resinators closer to the engine was better than out back...but ive since forgotten the how/why for of it

those units out back sure look ALOT like the old thrush units in question

 

[Dr.Jass]

im sure this is a better discusion for another day..but...i was under the impression that resinators closer to the engine was better than out back...but ive since forgotten the how/why for of it

I honestly don't know the answer, but I assume it's got to do with noise.

What I do know, though, is that as a gas cools, it loses volume. Your EGT might be 1,000+° at the exhaust port, but it won't burn your hand at the tailpipe. That means its volume has contracted considerably. Those resonators neck down inside, so they're not wide-open 2½" all the way through. The further I could put them from the engine, the better. Now they're passing exhaust gases that had 10' of pipe and a couple of mufflers to use as heatsinks. I wanted less noise, but with minimal flow losses. Regardless, I have little doubt they're costing me power... but that's why I made X-pipe dumps.

 

[b-body-bob]

it's a blend of welded and clamped

Sure, there are places were a weld is needed but if you're going to work on the engine/trans you need to be able to get the pipes out of the way, which your combo of welds and clamps allows.

In this case, it was a fresh engine/trans in a beat to shit rustbox of a body. It also had a completely rebuilt suspension under it. Don't ask, I didn't understand it either, I just took advantage of a good price. I parked it next to that blue gTx I had and moved parts from one car to the other. I still find parts here that I took off before selling the rolling shell.

 

[Dr.Jass]

In this case, it was a fresh engine/trans in a beat to shit rustbox of a body. It also had a completely rebuilt suspension under it.

Virtually the same situation with Agnes, really. Every wear part on the suspension and everything brake-related was brand new. The engine was fresh and I built the transmission from parts of three lesser boxes. The only part of the exhaust that restricts service (other than the headers themselves) is the X-pipe, which would have to move to remove the transmission, but it's close enough that I believe unbolting it from the headers and removing the band clamps would provide enough drop to sneak the 4-speed out. If not, there's no pipe crush at the band-clamped connections, so the X-pipe should slide out easily enough.

The only reason I welded the tips is because there's already a clamp/hanger right there, and it wasn't far enough back to secure the tips. It looks better than clamps next to clamps, which is usually an indicator of half-considered butchery. If I need to replace a resonator, I'll just replace the tip too. The tips are shelf parts at the store.