Rarity Question

71ChargerRT

71ChargerRT

Well-known member
I've kinda had a car fall into my lap, sounds kinda like an oddball, "but a neat, I wanna keep it for myself" car.:wtf:


What I've been told, it's 1974 Dart Sport, 360, 4spd, (both MIA:doh:) sunroof car, and it's CHEAP!:helpme: Like somebody around here is selling some wheels and tires for more money cheap. :toot:


I'm supposed to run up to pick it up on Saturday, and if it is what I've been told I'm keeping it. If it isn't, well, we'll see how things work out.:huh:
 
Missed the question part :D

It's rough, but mostly complete, pretty similar condition to the Duster I picked up for my son. What might be something like that worth, and is it really rare? It has the crank sunroof not the slider.
 
A factory 360/4speed car...with sunroof...YEAH I'd keep that too. Tell your son he has a new project. Cut the tail panel off the 70, grab the hood and fenders and paste onto the 74. Guys are always looking for sunroof parts, and 4 speed stuff...wouldn't want to pay more then $500 for it..IMO. If he had the numbers motor and tranny that would be a whole different thing. Make sure the tag has the right sunroof code...M51 or was it M52?
 
VERY rare for an A body.
I have only ever seen a handful of the '74-'76 A bodies with a 360, much less a factory 4 speed one.

If the fender tag is there, the bottom line will have D21 (4 speed) and E58 (4 Barrel HP 360 and the VIN should have LM29L4*******.

If it's a 1975 or 1976, the D code will move to D24, for 833 overdrive, THOUGH THE NON-OVERDRIVE TRANS WAS AVAILABLE IN 1975!

The telltales for a factory 4 speed is the hole in the middle of the dash, for the factory installed reverse indicator, which is near the ashtray and the frame bracket welded to the driver's side inner fender.
Man, it's been a LONG time since I have wanted to share info like this!

Mark.
 
I disagree with Cow. That's a full-boogie restoration project; I wouldn't modify it. No, it can never be numbers-matching unless you really lucked out but that's a pretty-rare car. If it's got the fold-down rear seat, even better... that makes it a Convertriple, and with a 360/stick it's off-the-charts rare. Would I go apeshit on it? No... big deal if the distributor has the wrong tag or if the heads are the wrong casting numbers, but make it look correct as possible without killing yourself.

Where's Oven Mitt when you need him? He had a 360-4v Convertriple, but I'm pretty sure his was an auto. It killed him to sell that car, because he knew how unusual it was. Life takes precedence, though, and at that time he had no other option as I recall.
 
Mark Nixon said:
If the fender tag is there, the bottom line will have D21 (4 speed) and E58 (4 Barrel HP 360 and the VIN should have LM29L4*******.

If it's a 1975 or 1976, the D code will move to D24, for 833 overdrive.
Click to expand...
I may be wrong, but I thought in '75 both 4-speed transmissions were available, with the close-ratio being used behind 360s. I know the A833OD was iron-cased in 1975, but I thought it wasn't used behind the 360. I know the aluminum-cased A833OD was never available behind a 360, period, even a two-barrel. People have told me for years about examples of which they're aware, to which I've always responded, "Show me the data tag." No one ever has, and this has been going on since I had my Aspen in '93. It's always, "My uncle's pastor's brother's wife's nephew ordered a '78 Volare wagon that way new!" but no one has ever come forward with hard evidence proving its existence as a factory setup.
 
Thanks for the info, I was thinking about tossing a 70-72 nose on it and making it a Demon, look-a-like, clone or whatever it's called. It's coming home with me regardless, only thing that's up in the air is what's going to happen when it gets here. If it is what I've been told I guess the Charger is getting the 400 and going to be driven whilest the DS goes onto the rotissorie.
 
There were actually cast iron A-833 overdrives built until 1980 in trucks, but that's neither here nor there.
They were also available, as far as I can recall having seen, until sometime in 1977 in F bodies.

Jass, I have only had ONE of the post 1974 A body 4 speeds that were direct in 4th, it was a 1975 model and quite likely a a 360 transmission, but it used the 307 input bearing, on a bearing retainer with the overdrive-sized register, definitely an odd duck.
It seems to me that this was done in 1974, as well, but how many 1974 V-8 A body 4 speed cars have either of us seen?

The tipoff of whether a later cast iron cased 833 is overdrive or not, is the bolt spacing on the bearing retainer, OTHER THAN THE 1970-1974 Big Block AND HEMI 4 SPEEDS, the overdrive trans is the only trans that used the 308 bearing and, consequently, the enlarged bearing hole with the wider bolt spacing.

I DO know that the over-sized bell register, which still utilized the 307 bearing debuted in 1973 with the slant 6 3 speed, yet the V-8s didn't have it.

If you're confused about the bearing retainer and size differences, this is similar to what was done in the 1968 and 1969 B bodies with a 23 spline transmission.
But I doubt Jasser is confusable. ;)

Mark.
 
On the truck transmissions, only the tailshaft housing was iron. The main body was aluminum, but the tailshaft housing was a B/E-body piece with the rear holes left undrilled. That was the case until the death of the Slant Six in '89.

There are three sizes of front-bearing retainer in regards to bellhousing pilot: 4.35", 4.80", and 5.125". All overdrives are 5.125", but have the same bolt circle as the 4.80" retainer. The 4.35" has a smaller bolt circle. All big-block, Hemi, and '70-up B/E-body transmissions (and most of the A-car transmissions, barring very-early '70s with '69 leftovers) were the 4.80" pilot, including the 18-spline units. The 5.125" pilot was A833OD only. The only way to tell a bare cast-iron A833OD case (only made in '75, and A-body only) from a standard case is by the bore for the countershaft. It's larger on the OD trans as the countershaft floats on bearings, and requires a cupped plug to seal it. This is considered the weak point of the OD, particularly the aluminum-cased versions, as the countershaft is rolling bearings while enduring the stress of the overdrive, causing case wear (the countershaft bearings roll against the aluminum case). The floating countershaft was solely to try and suppress gear rattle; you can bush the countershaft to a solid, near-press-fit setup like a close-ratio and seriously strengthen the transmission. It's a bit of a tweaky procedure, but it's just time and thought more than anything.

The only exceptions to the above that might exist are the Chevrolet A833ODs. Yep, they were used in Chevy 2WD trucks for a few years (I want to say 1978-'83, but don't pin me to that). They had a different input spline (I think it was 10) and I'm not sure about the pilot diameter as I've never seen one out of the truck. Again, I can't swear to it, but I think the crank pilot was a different diameter as well so as to use a standard Chevrolet pilot bushing. Even the Chevrolet versions used the aluminum main case with a cast-iron tailshaft housing.

The 5.125" pilot bellhousing showed up in 1975, obviously small-block-only. Being that they used the same bolt circle on the bearing retainer, it's possible that all 1975 transmissions had that pilot diameter. I know that the bell didn't change from 1970-74 on either big or small block applications, but '75 I'm not sure (obviously big-block 4-speeds were gone by then). However, I'm almost positive (almost being a key word here) that 360 cars got the close-ratio trans.

I like to learn, as evidenced when we were talking about diesels. If you have different information than mine, feed my brain! I'm listening!
 
I'm fairly certain the slant 6 POS died in 1987, however I know for a FACT that the (Aluminum) O/D lived until 1990, as I have access to one that's still in the truck and it has that goofy-assed shifter cover, or hump that those trucks used.
It is aluminum-cased.
I know for a FACT that the Pick-up overdrive was cast iron through 1980, I've had several and the last one I actually used was from a 1979.
Of course, all of the '80s versions were All-Aluminum.

I use Car-Part.com a lot for general referencing and their application says that the A833 O/D did in fact run through 1990, but I knew that beforehand.

Kinda' cool to be able have a hydro clutch AND the possibility of a 12" clutch on an A833, even if it'll only work on a small block.

Mark.
 
I've never seen an all-aluminum truck A833OD; in fact the replacement B/E tailshaft housing we sold at Year One was a pickup-truck part (not drilled or tapped at the rear mount) and was listed up until at least '89, possibly 1990. It was cast iron. I have never, ever seen or even heard tales of an aluminum long-tail, except for Direct Connection stuff from the wayback machine... and that wasn't OD stuff.

I helped a friend change a clutch in his 1987 D150, which was a tiltbanger 4-speed, and that truck had the cast-iron tailshaft housing. He bought that truck new.
 
I concur, all of the PICK-UP tail housings on the O/D 833 are cast iron.

I've seen a few of the earlier Van/Truck overdrives that actually had the E-body mount machined, drilled and tapped, but it's really only on the 1975 ones, never seen anything later that was prepped for E-body use.

Seems rather amusing we'd even be arguing semantics on such OBSCURE things like this.

Mark.
 
I'm learning!

I finally went out and pulled that 833OD from that truck I mentioned a few months back :D. It's aluminum cased with the cast iron tail shaft as it seems most (all?) were supposed to be.
 
dodgechargerfan said:
Less than 4000 1974 Dart Sports with 360s
Factor in the stick and the sunroof.... Wow!
Click to expand...
That's why I was saying I'd do it up as stock as possible, without going into paint daubs and chalk marks. It's definitely rare, but it's still a '74 Dart Sport. It's not going to be a $50,000 car no matter how nicely you do it. I wouldn't sweat the date code on the engine or trans, etc. But, I do think it deserves to be a clean representative of the breed, rather than having an earlier front end and tail panel. With the sunroof and an (incorrect) OD trans, it might make for a darn-nice weekend-trip cruiser or even commuter car for 71ChargerRT and his family. It's unique and rare, but not so rare that it has to stay cooped up in a garage its whole life.
 
I would love to own this car.

There is a green 74 Dart Sport 360 here that is as untouched as Stretch's car. Belongs to the original owner. Saw him just last week while out for a tour in the Demon, taking his Grandkids (great grandkids?) out for a spin.
 
Dr.Jass said:
That's why I was saying I'd do it up as stock as possible, without going into paint daubs and chalk marks. It's definitely rare, but it's still a '74 Dart Sport. It's not going to be a $50,000 car no matter how nicely you do it. I wouldn't sweat the date code on the engine or trans, etc. But, I do think it deserves to be a clean representative of the breed, rather than having an earlier front end and tail panel. With the sunroof and an (incorrect) OD trans, it might make for a darn-nice weekend-trip cruiser or even commuter car for 71ChargerRT and his family. It's unique and rare, but not so rare that it has to stay cooped up in a garage its whole life.
Click to expand...

That's the way I am leaning. I have the 340 and the 915 heads, a factory 73 340 intake, a few TQ's lying around, that 833OD I just picked up... the pieces are there I just have to put it together. It's a bucket seat console car too, buckets are gone though. Good thing it's an A body, the '73-6 4 door parts cars can be had reasonably, most of the time.

Let's see, I need related 4 speed parts including bell housing & shifter, buckets, windshield, soft parts and trim odds and ends. It's no HEMI Challenger, but definitely a decent driver type car.

I kicked around the idea of a late model 5.9 Mag/NV4500, but nah.
 
So, is it in your yard now, or what?
I'd opt for the 360 Magnum with an 833 overdrive, but I've done one and loved it, so I may be biased, here.

Mark.
 
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