Noises

7

71dusterman

Well-known member
Been getting some noises in the front end of my Cirrus for a while and finally decided to look into it and found that the swaybar links were bad, tie rods weren't great and ball joints were mediocure. So I went to a local Part Source and started out by asking the price of the lower control arm for the driver side. $266 cdn per side. So I went on ebay and found a repair kit of 2 links, 2 control arms, 2 tie rods and 2 upper ball joints, total cost with shipping and UPS cross the border rip was only bout $360 cdn. So I get the parts and being I was on vacation this week decided to tackle the job. I don't envie any front end techs for this as the front control arm bolt has a hidden nut with a retaining ring to hold the LOCNUT while you tighten or loosen. When I went to loosen said nut the retianing ring broke off @@!@@@ and there was no way to get a wrench or socket on the nut.Had the coice of taking it to a garage or drill the head off and pound it thru, so I decided to go the cheaper route and drilled the head and pound the remainder thru. Easy huh. Not. It bound up in the busing bout a half inch remaining. All that was left was to cut it out but to do that had to sawsall the control arm to get to the rest of the bolt with the sawsall. Then had to tackle the rear control arm bolt that was double nutted as it also holds a support brace in place. First nut came off not too bad but the second was a feel only with limited space and a partially rustedoff head. Had to drill this one out as well. A few blue word were said about the design engineers about this setup and a few prayers for the techs who have to deal with these types of issues on a regular basis. May tackle the second side next weekend if I feel up to it.
This was all done while the car was on jackstands and laying on my back to get it done. Hopefully in the future when my sons car gets put back together I will be able to access my hoist to do crap like this, cause I'm not gettin any younger. :doh:
 
The next time you're gonna tackle a job like this, might I suggest consulting with someone like Stretch or beeper*71 first? Those two do stuff like this for a living, and know the stuff forward and backward. Either guy would've gladly advised you on the tricks of the trade. True pros, both of 'em.

20/20 hindsight, I know.
 
I know , and I have done a lot of front end stuff before but never any with hidden retainers that break on first attempt at removal. These bolts are 10 years old in the salt belt and lock nutsthat are peined in and not the nylon ones. :eek:
 
Oh, those two know plenty about rust. Stretch works a few blocks from me; I recently broke a customer's spindle--yes, the steering knuckle--in half because it was so rusty. A $25 bearing-press job lost the store over $100 by the time it was all said and done.

We no longer press bearings.
 
Without my torch and cutting wheel I'm useless. :D

Neon and P/T lower control arm bolts are a joy also, when the trapped nut breaks loose out comes the cookie wheel cutter to window the subframe so you can smoke the nut...fun stuff. Then carefully weld the flap back in place, undercoat and your done.

Been lucky on the few Cirrus I've had to deal with. Many get an estimate for a front end overhaul on those piles and drive them straight to the crusher. :D
 
We had an old guy show up at the shop with a Cirrus and front end noises. We shot him an estimate, kind of hoping to blow him out of the water.
He told us to do the job. $600 later, the noise was still there. Those JA's get noises and you cant get rid of them. :huh:
Be glad you don't have the cradle bushings on an LH to go with the rest of the noises.
 
beeper*71 said:
:D

Neon and P/T lower control arm bolts are a joy also, when the trapped nut breaks loose out comes the cookie wheel cutter to window the subframe so you can smoke the nut...fun stuff. Then carefully weld the flap back in place, undercoat and your done.
Click to expand...


I don’t like cutting the uni-body rail on those. I pull up the carpet and use a 2” hole saw to cut the floor pan. There is a 2” dimple in the floor exactly above the captured nut. I simply weld the piece I cut out with the hole saw back in and after a quick shot of spray pant I fold the carpet back over the hole and nobody knows I was ever there.
 
Stretch said:
I don’t like cutting the uni-body rail on those. I pull up the carpet and use a 2” hole saw to cut the floor pan. There is a 2” dimple in the floor exactly above the captured nut. I simply weld the piece I cut out with the hole saw back in and after a quick shot of spray pant I fold the carpet back over the hole and nobody knows I was ever there.
Click to expand...


I'm not thrilled about cutting the rail either but that's how the local Dodge dealer does it, three slices then fold the flap out of the way.
Your idea sounds feasable but what about all the welding sparks inside the interior? That would make me nervous.
 
Sounds like I did it the only way I could with the fact that I don't have a hot wrench! :( :helpme: The use of my hoist would have made it a little easier.
 
beeper*71 said:
I'm not thrilled about cutting the rail either but that's how the local Dodge dealer does it, three slices then fold the flap out of the way.
Your idea sounds feasable but what about all the welding sparks inside the interior? That would make me nervous.
Click to expand...



I’ve done it your way also. I just feel it’s less structurally invasive to come from above. When cutting through the side you have the inner layer of metal to deal with and it isn’t easy to repair that once you have been in there. As for the welding sparks. I have a nice welding blanket I use and I place a bunch of wet shop towels where that doesn’t cover. I feel it’s quicker too. I just cut the hole, cut the head of the bolt off, and hammer it up and out of the control arm with my mighty air chisel drop in a nut start a bolt and hold the nut with a couple of tacks and away we go.
 
J.C. Corbett said:
Hmmmmm......note to self. Research this "rust" that the northern 'nuts keep speaking of.:shifty:
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You, hush. :doubt:


Hey stretch, instead of welding the the hole in the floor why not install a 2" rubber or plastic body plug? It's under the carpet anyhow and would provide easy access should the need arrive to replace the bushing again. :hmmm:
 
Damn...I remember Stretch and Beeper making refrence to these front ends in the past, and how they SUCK to work on....guess when the 02 Concorde starts making noises it's time to start looking for a new car. :doh:
 
The concord has a different control arm set up. It doesn’t have the same problem as the neons and the PT cruzer.

The problem with the LH chassis is the way the tie rod ends are located. They are very hard to get at and make an accurate adjustment. Especially here in rust country.
 
One side almost done,1/2 hour left to tighten everthing down and then to get the ambition to tackle the other side. After that I will take it to a trusted shop hand him the tierods and have him put them on and realign it.

Didn't want to pay Ma's exobitant prices for bolts so I had my son go to the local bolt supplier and get me the right size metric bolts and rounded the lead edge to be able to pilot them thru their holes. :shifty:
 
Stretch said:
The concord has a different control arm set up. It doesn’t have the same problem as the neons and the PT cruzer.

The problem with the LH chassis is the way the tie rod ends are located. They are very hard to get at and make an accurate adjustment. Especially here in rust country.
Click to expand...

That's good info to know...Thanks Stretch.... :2thumbs:
 
Stretch,Beeper.

Just curious what ayou guys end up charging (hour wise) for to change both control arms, upper ball joints, swaybar links and inner and outer tie rods? Iknow it takes some money out of a mechanics income by doing it myself as we all do but I have to try to keep some in my pocket somehow with the way everyone is trying to take and empty our pockets.
 
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