Clutch

b-body-bob

b-body-bob

Well-known member
The clutch is giving up the ghost in the GTX - so I'm looking for recommendations. I don't need anything like a dual friction, just something that will stand up behind a somewhat aggressively driven street 440 w/3.91s. If I could find one that would last for couple of good seasons I'd be tickled pink.

So what are those of you with clutches using, and what are your experiences?

Thanks,

Bob
 
Best clutch Ive ever owned was a Borg Warner Power Brute. This was 20 yrs ago and Im not sure if they still produce them. I would keep it when I sold the car and dump in a stocker-did that 6 times. It was hard on throw out bearings and linkages but never slipped. 4800 pressure plate if I remember right. I would go to a 12 in truck borg and beck type with the most spring pressure you can find.
 
I got about 2 years out of a Hayes. Then I found a buddy that worked in a a clutch and brabk shop. He took that Hayes apart and made it twice as strong. He told me he could the same to any pressure plate. He only charged about 60 or 70 bucks, including a new clutch disk. So I guess I say go find a repair shop that works on rebuliding clutches and talk with them.
 
I bought a centerforce, way too pricey if you ask me. Pedal is mucho easier, but I really only do street driving so not sure of the racing aspects of it, but thats what I understand they are designed for.

More resto flashbacks: I measured the disc before I bought one and it was 11", after 3 trips to the speed shop I measured the pressure plate. 10 15/16" grrrr ya think an old parts guy would have been thru that a few times himself before.
 
i got a centerforce in mopey, ask XL for details [smilie=e:

if calculations are right i got about 400 / 430 RWHP and it works perfect, but it's a fairly new unit.

i can sidestep the clutch in third gear and the only thing that slips are the tires, grabs very hard and easy pedal, but i converted it to hydraulic.
 
That's an idea on the big 12" truck setup, but unnecessary spring pressure means unnecessary wear on the old thrust bearing. I've got an engine in the corner with that problem, XL had one in mopey. I'll make sure to get a higher spring pressure than stock though. [smilie=b:

I've heard of people rebuilding pressure plates to improve the holding force, but I'll about bet there's no one here that can do that. There used to be an old guy with a tracheotomy and one of those buzz boxes to talk with that did them, had a distributor machine too, but he died over 20 years ago. I'll ask around maybe someone still has the machines and the skill.

I'm thinking about going to an 11" setup too, it's now a 10.95 scalloped, if for no other reason than to have more parts available to me. I guess the smart idea would be to stay with a steel flywheel on the street.
 
Theres an outfit near here in Spokane that does custom clutches, Pacific Brake and Clutch but shipping cant be cheap either. [smilie=e:
 
Yeah and I'd lose nearly two weeks in transit even if the fixed it the day after they received it.

I called the one so-called speed and machine shop here, the guy acted like I was speaking another language when I asked about rebuilding a PP.

you'd think from the equipment they have they'd at least be able to act knowledgeable. Last time I used them, to turn a flywheel, they called and asked if I needed both sides turned. [smilie=e:
 
Yep, after they called and asked me that, I walked up to my wife and said "I think I might have screwed up".

They got it done though. It sucks when you have limited alternatives. Makes me want to start a real shop, but the problem is finding enough customers with money to make a go of it.
 
Do you have a scattershield in that car? If not, and you're seriously considering the 11" setup, remember that you'll need a new bellhousing, flywheel, clutch fork, and pivot. If you do have a scattershield, you'll still need to swap flywheels to get the 143-tooth unit required to run an 11" clutch.

The truck 12" clutch might hold, but I don't know that I'd want to pay to have a custom bellhousing made (or have to roll-start it every time since the starter wouldn't work). I've not seen a truck bell (for the 12" clutch) that will accept an A833. Most truck four-speed bells look like this small-block piece in the trans-mount area... no 833 pattern:

75_1_b.JPG
 
Anyhow, my recommendation would be to go with a Ram heavy-duty pressure plate for 10.5” applications, part number 423, and their HD 10.5” disc, part number 307M (18-spline) or 303M (23-spline). The plate has a 3200lb static load with a mild centrifugal assist, and the 10.5” disc is more than up to the task of your engine. They make a 10.95” HD plate (number 428) but it seems no matching disc. No matter—the smaller setup is plenty strong as these are their heaviest-duty street pieces (meaning there’s a marcel spring in the disc to avoid chatter). We used this setup in a built-to-the-nuts race-gas-only ’69 Super Bee and never had a problem with 295/50R-15 tires and 4.10 gears.

It also has the slight advantage that a smaller disc presents: less rotational inertia (flywheel effect) on the input shaft, meaning the synchronizers slow down faster and shifting is easier. No, probably not a huge difference but every little bit helps.

Avoid the standard Ram replacement set or their “better holding” PowerGrip sets. The only difference in the PowerGrip set is the facing material; the pressure plate is the same and it will fail with repeated abuse (friend broke one in a very-healthy 318/4-speed Dart).
 
We have a similar situation in this area and Ive been thinking along the same lines. But where do you go about getting the cash together to do inventory and buy equipment? Buy the time you do everything by the book you are lucky to break even. The best counterman in the area is soon to be unemployed due to the place being bought out and closed and theres definitly room for a decent place to make money. Ive been wrenching for 30 yrs plus and do know enough about how things should be done to make it happen. Mabeye rob a bank- I can drive the get away car at least. [smilie=e:
 
Jass,

Yes, I've got a Lakewood shield, the original alu 513 bell cracked to hell, and the welder didn't bolt it to anything before TIGging it up, so it warped. Another experience with local idiots there.

I know about the flywheel, but maybe I can sell the 130 tooth one to Nodda to get some $$ back. :D
 
Uh, wouldn't your flywheel be externally balanced for the heavy-rod 440? Or is your engine not a '70 HP version?
 
Da-ho said:
But where do you go about getting the cash together to do inventory and buy equipment?
Click to expand...

Chit, I get enough low-interest loan offers a week to start a business but I have to be sure to get enough biz to pay the nut every month. I know of one guy that started an ISP back in the early days using his credit cards. He eventually sold that out and doesn't have to work anymore. :)

That speedshop here started because the guy ended up with so much money invested in his race team that it only made sense to start offering services to the public. He also owns several other money-making businesses, and so he only has to do enough biz with the speedshop to keep the employees and the IRS happy. There's enough ricers here to take care of that, but I have no interest at all in working on that crap.

Was talking to someone the other day about starting up a muscle car repair biz here, and they told me that they know of several doctors that are big into the collector car racket here. I'm still researching that angle. I don't want enough work to have to quit my day job, but a job every weekend (on something besides my own junk) would add up pretty nicely.
 
Dr.Jass said:
Uh, wouldn't your flywheel be externally balanced for the heavy-rod 440? Or is your engine not a '70 HP version?
Click to expand...

It's a 74 cast crank block with a forged crank in it, and the builder also balanced the rotating assembly internally. Lots of shiny Mallory metal in there. :)

I can only wish the car was matching numbers - so I could sell it and buy a non-numbers hotrod and bank the difference. Kid's gotta go to college some day you know. :)

I thought Nodda needed an external balance flywheel anyway, I was just poking fun at him. :)
 
Yeah, he does... but the external balance is different for virtually every application, unfortunately.

At least it sounds like the engine builder knew what he was doing, even if the previous owner didn't. [smilie=e: Is it still an 18-spline tranny?

Hell, the way the market's now, you could probably eBay that bad-boy and bank a tidy profit regardless. :D
 
Yeah, I'm real happy with the engine. Needs a bigger cam for sound effect purposes :), but right now it's a stump pulling son of a gun. The builder's primary business is building big blocks for sea-going tugs in Philly, and the heritage shows.

The trans is a pre-70 23-spline unit. The car was originally an auto on the column with a bench seat. I'll reserve comment on who would've wanted a GTX set up like that ... and just say it's a lot nicer with buckets console and 4-speed. :)

There have been discussions here about selling the GTX, buying one of those new 400 horse crate magnums for the Dart, painting and upholstering it, and banking the sizable chunk of change that should be left. It's hard to part with the big b-body though, because I know if I do I'll never be able to afford another real GTX or roadrunner at today's prices.
 
As a general rule I dont reccommend diaphram clutches for any application but for yours Im thinkin centerforce would be the way to go due to the work already put into the rotating assembly. Depending on driving habits and such you SHOULD get a few seasons from it. [smilie=e:
 
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